# If you think the Schiavo case will "backfire" on Republicans, you're a fool **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904 "2005-03-23T17:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/1 "2005-03-23T17:01:32Z")
I had to say it, even at the risk of being proven wrong and showing myself to be a fool. If you really think that Republicans don’t have this managed, then you haven’t been listening, and you don’t know much about their media machine or their appeal. You think the ultimte fallout is based on polls showing that the public disapproves of Terri’s treatment. Polls are stupid. It’s takeaway that’s important: what people will look back on this case and remember, regardless of the facts. They will remember that Michael Schiavo was a scumbag. They will remember that opinion being solidified by the emergence of nurses who claim that Michael tried to off Terri with insulin, or called her a bitch, or whatever, all of which has been brought out with expert timing. No American populace that has ever lived is going to remember Michael as the good guy, and her parents, who have been far far far more closely pictured and associated with marytr Terri, the bad guys. They will remember that, whatever the merits of the particular case, the right came down on trying to save a life, and the left came down on too eagerly trying to get it ended. I know, I know, the appeals court said that courts should err on the side of life, and that this case overcomes that burden with convincing evidence that she would want to die. But that’s not what people on the right really mean when they say that. When they say “err on the side of life” what they mean is that no one should make any attempt to argue that she shouldn’t be kept alive. Doing that at all makes you suspect, period. All the sane, rational arguments to the contrary have recieved thourough writing off by the right. Think you have a knockdown argument about Bush’s hypocrisy in regards to the Texas law? Get over yourself. The right already has that one managed and even gets to turn it around and make you look like a reaching dumbass for pushing it. They’ve done that for every argument you can think of. Sorry. Who’s right doesn’t matter: who’s better at this does. And they are much better at it than you are. This, more than anything else, solidifies the right wing base in a way that will make it harder than ever for the Democrats to ever steal it away. A woman was being put to death, and Congressional Republicans were the ones to have the balls to stand up to the courts, stand up to popular opinion, and try to do something about it. And what about conservatives who are not exactly enthused about the federal government’s action in this case? Are they going to suddenly switch sides just because they think the majority has become abusive of its power? Not on your life. Most will still at least marginally buy into the Limbaugh/O’Reily take on the facts of the case, even if they think those guys are harmless or even embarrasing jokesters and entertainers that are beneath them and serious conservative thought. They certianly won’t buy the goofy legal manuevers, but as always, they will at least tepidly, at least for the purposes of presenting another side, defend any sort of conservative social demands. And the rest will not move them an inch. Not because they are irrational defenders of everything their party does, but because they know that this was an extreme situation, obviously a mix of both sincere (if misled) emotion as well as politics, which in the end is not something that can be deeply faulted when found in politicians. These conservatives have happily turned around and took it in regards to the pandering to the religious right for years, no matter how absurd. Not becuase they are idiots or necessarily believe it all. Because they know the value of a coalition, and they are not going to spend much time railing about their own party just because it knows it has to have a broad appeal that includes religious conservatives. So, get real. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/2 "2005-03-23T17:20:07Z")
The irony of couse is that if only she were a murderer, the left would be moving mountains to keep her alive and claiming the situation was in reality a back-door death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![zetafunction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/57b2e6/32.png) [@zetafunction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zetafunction)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/3 "2005-03-23T17:23:15Z")
Nice post that helps ground people in reality. Very depressing though. ---
**Author:** ![zetafunction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/57b2e6/32.png) [@zetafunction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zetafunction)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/4 "2005-03-23T17:24:30Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > The irony of couse is that if only she were a murderer, the left would be moving mountains to keep her alive and claiming the situation was in reality a back-door death penalty. Damn those hypothetical leftists! Also, what is the Republicans’ argument against the Texas law? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/5 "2005-03-23T17:29:41Z")
I was watching Newt Gingrich on O’Reilley two nights ago. My head was about to explode with the spin that he managed to apply to the situation. “We just don’t know what Terry’s medical situation will be like in the future.” How about I give you two choices: vegetable or dead. I just can’t stand the fact that they’re criticising the court systems for making rash, ill-considered judgement when this battle has been wadged for fifteen years and the decision of the person empowered to decide what her wishes would have been is clear. I just love all the work the Republicans have been doing to strengthen the institution of marriage here. Dear god, the idiocy… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/6 "2005-03-23T17:30:39Z")
I’ve been trying to think of a good ad that the Democrats could run on this. The best I’ve come up with is a close up of an attractive husband and wife in an attractive living room discussing what to do in case of a tragedy. Wife: If something happens to my mind, so I’m just a vegetable, I want you to tell them to pull the plug. I wouldn’t want to go on that way and torture you. Husband: (Touching her tenderly) Yes, dear. I understand and I’ll respect your wishes. Obviously Republican jack-booted thug of a Congressman barges in between them. RJBTOAC: Oh no you won’t! I’m your government, and we know better. Voiceover: Do you want Washington to prevent your loved ones from respecting your wishes? If not, Vote Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/7 "2005-03-23T17:31:09Z")
Meh, the analysis is completely overthought. The reason it won’t backfire on the Republicans is that elections aren’t for another year and a half. Nobody will care about this case in that time because there will be more immediate current events to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/8 "2005-03-23T17:33:03Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > The irony of couse is that if only she were a murderer, the left would be moving mountains to keep her alive and claiming the situation was in reality a back-door death penalty. The irony of course is that if she were a lesbian the “right” wouldn’t give a rat’s ass and would be OK with her death. Also ironic is my belief that all generalizations suck. **Apos** is right. We may be legally right in saying that Michael Schiavo has the right to pull the plug, or we may believe ourselves to be morally right in thinking that this course of action is the most humane for Terri, but at the end of the day we’ll be protrayed as calling for the death of a helpless disabled woman. That image is going to stick in the minds of a lot of people despite what the rest of the facts may be. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/9 "2005-03-23T17:33:32Z")
Wow, that’s one hell of an asinine post. Are you arguing that whether we should maintain people in a hopeless vegetative state or not should be based upon the character of the individual? Maybe that’s another hopeless decision that the Republicans can heap upon the federal courts. God I love neo-conservatism, where personal choice, freedom, and avoiding the influence of government in your private matters is handled through the federal court system. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/10 "2005-03-23T17:33:56Z")
> [@zetafunction](#): > > Damn those hypothetical leftists! > > Also, what is the Republicans’ argument against the Texas law? That Bush passed it as part of the best compromise he could manage to get with the Democratic legislature. [http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/05\_03\_20\_corner-archive.asp#058783](http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/05_03_20_corner-archive.asp#058783) And in fact, their arguement is convincing enough that I no longer make such arguments about Bush’s hypocrisy. Although I do think it actually might be the opposite of what my OP says: it could be a winner in terms of politics to make this argument, but it is not very good on the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/11 "2005-03-23T17:38:02Z")
**Apos** , why are you so against marriage? Why are Republicans coming out so forcefully against the bedrockof our society, the fact that a husband and a wife are joined by free will, and that the government ought not to interfere with the lawful decisions made between a husband and a wife? Why are you trying to inject Big Government into matters that are solely between a man and a woman who are bonded by marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/12 "2005-03-23T17:40:15Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Wow, that’s one hell of an asinine post. Are you arguing that whether we should maintain people in a hopeless vegetative state or not should be based upon the character of the individual? > > Maybe that’s another hopeless decision that the Republicans can heap upon the federal courts. God I love neo-conservatism, where personal choice, freedom, and avoiding the influence of government in your private matters is handled through the federal court system. Who are you talking to? If it’s me, you should note that this post isn’t ABOUT what we should or should not do. It’s about the wishful thinking many seem to have about how the country is suddenly going to agree, on the basis of this case, that Republicans are bad. The BEST we can hope for is that this adds a tiny bit of slow slow momentum to the narrative that eventually hurts ANY party in power, which is that it abuses its power. But this one case alone isn’t going to cause massive converts, even on that single idea. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/13 "2005-03-23T17:44:43Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > The irony of course is that if she were a lesbian the “right” wouldn’t give a rat’s ass and would be OK with her death.[ 😃😃😃 Pretty quick thinking, there, **Mojo**. I gotta admit, you made me laugh with that one. It’s not true, of course…but it’s funny just the same. (See? Here’s another difference between the left and right. The right can laugh at itself, but the left is just so damned _earnest_.) I’d also point out to **Voyager** that we only have her husband’s word (the husband who wants her out of the way for marital and possibly financial motives) that Terri said she didn’t want to be kept alive artificially. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/14 "2005-03-23T17:45:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Apos** , why are you so against marriage? Why are Republicans coming out so forcefully against the bedrockof our society, the fact that a husband and a wife are joined by free will, and that the government ought not to interfere with the lawful decisions made between a husband and a wife? Why are you trying to inject Big Government into matters that are solely between a man and a woman who are bonded by marriage? If you’ve whoosed yourself, it’s no fault of mine, and I might as well ask: why are you so clueless? If you are whooshing me, well then, good show, though it isn’t a very original or a very funnily penned whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/15 "2005-03-23T17:48:13Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’d also point out to **Voyager** that we only have her husband’s word (the husband who wants her out of the way for marital and possibly financial motives) that Terri said she didn’t want to be kept alive artificially. There are FOUR threads in the Pit alone where you can go and learn the FACTS of this case, you complete imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/16 "2005-03-23T17:48:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d also point out to Voyager that we only have her husband’s word (the husband who wants her out of the way for marital and possibly financial motives) that Terri said she didn’t want to be kept alive artificially. Refuting you isn’t really the subject of this thread. Pointing out that there will always be laughably misinformed people like you is the subject of this thread. Perhaps you don’t realize the earnest self-effacing humor of the left because people like you require no explicit further attempt at parody, whereas we require more of a stretch and an effort? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/17 "2005-03-23T17:54:54Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > There are FOUR threads in the Pit alone where you can go and learn the FACTS of this case, you complete imbecile. Well, given the fact that I don’t normally go thread-seiving prior to posting something, I’ll just have to say I’ve heard or read nothing IRL to support what appears to be your contention, i.e., that there is other substantive evidence that she didn’t want to be kept alive artificially. If you have a substantive and reputable cite, however, I’ll be happy to rescind my statement. And I would point out to **zetafunction** that it isn’t the leftists are hypothetical, it’s the situation that is. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/18 "2005-03-23T18:00:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll just have to say I’ve heard or read nothing IRL to support what appears to be your contention Dear Sir, Who’s fault is that? Who speaks with implied knowledge of what he speaks, yet without, apparently, even having read the most basic legal facts of the case? But, since you wish to clutter up my thread… From the Second District’s review of the case: [http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/2dcaorder01-01.txt](http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/2dcaorder01-01.txt) > [@](#): > > We note that the guardianship court’s original order expressly relied upon and found credible the testimony of witnesses **other than Mr. Schiavo** or the Schindlers. We recognize that Mrs. Schiavo’s earlier oral statements were important evidence when deciding whether she would choose in February 2000 to withdraw life-prolonging procedures. See § 765.401(3), Fla. Stat. (2000); In re Guardianship of Browning, 568 So. 2d 4, 16. Nevertheless, the trial judge, acting as her proxy, **also properly considered evidence of Mrs. Schiavo’s values, personality, and her own decision-making process.** ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/19 "2005-03-23T18:10:17Z")
What I find to be the grotesquely cynical aspect of this is that the Congressional Republicans must have known that, even in federal court, the parents didn’t have much of a chance. At its core, this case remains about what Mrs. Schiavo expressed when she was still competent, and as far as I can tell, all of the actual evidence points toward her not wishing to remain alive through artificial means (see the court decisions quoted by Apos, above). Still, Congress enacted this law knowing that chances are that federal court action by the parents would end up with the court system ordering the removal of artificial nutrition and hydration (and perhaps never ordering it restarted, as appears to be happening now). By enacting this law, they made a feel-good statement, knowing it would likely fail, but in a way that will pin the blame on the federal judiciary, which they love to demonize. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904/20 "2005-03-23T18:10:42Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Well, given the fact that I don’t normally go thread-seiving prior to posting something, I’ll just have to say I’ve heard or read nothing IRL to support what appears to be your contention, i.e., that there is other substantive evidence that she didn’t want to be kept alive artificially. If you have a substantive and reputable cite, however, I’ll be happy to rescind my statement. I am not going to clutter up another thread with the merits of the case. You may read: [Let the poor woman die already!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307479) or [It’s the Feds turn for a whack at Terri Schiavo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307465) or [Ok, I agree…Bush is a frigging moron (Bush Signs Schiavo Bill)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308060) or, to a lesser extent [This may be a reason the vote went through. Dems, please chime in.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308006) There are also at least three threads in GD. Have fun! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-think-the-schiavo-case-will-backfire-on-republicans-youre-a-fool/295904.md?page=2)