# If you thought you knew Michael Vick... **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 26, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624 "2009-09-26T04:49:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/21 "2009-09-27T22:57:07Z")
The fact is that dog fighting is cultural. If you don’t think so, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Unfortunately, it exists all over the world, and is practiced by people of all racial backgrounds. No one is claiming that Vick should be forgiven. He certainly chose to participate in and fund the killing and torture of dogs. No argument there. But I suppose contrary to most of you, I’ll continue to give the man credit for attempting to repair himself and to take care of his family. And I still believe that his story has the potential to save more dogs from experiencing future atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/22 "2009-09-27T23:07:57Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > The fact is that dog fighting is cultural. What does that have to do with the price of shit in a barn? Clitoral mutilation is cultural too-- is that ok? > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > No one is claiming that Vick should be forgiven. He certainly chose to participate in and fund the killing and torture of dogs. No argument there. But I suppose contrary to most of you, I’ll continue to give the man credit for attempting to repair himself and to take care of his family. And I still believe that his story has the potential to save more dogs from experiencing future atrocities. Well, contrary to most Christians, this atheist believes in forgiveness. But Vick is nowhere near it yet. It’s been, what, a year? You’ll have to forgive me for not buying the PR blitz. If the NFL had any scruples whatsoever he would not be playing. Then maybe he could go on a public-speaking tour to raise awareness about dogfighting and animal abuse. After a few years of that, I would be a long way towards forgiving him. As of now he just wants to play ball (literally and figuratively), and doesn’t deserve an ounce of credit or forgiveness. He can go fuck himself until he earns a reason for the public to think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/23 "2009-09-28T01:00:19Z")
I can not help but think he is sorry he got caught, not that he was involved in dog fighting. He would never be able to play ball again if he did not say the right things. So he said them. If you are convinced that shows he is reformed ,good for you. I am not. I don’t know how he could win back the trust of people who are horrified by his idea of fun. It just says too much about who and what he is. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/24 "2009-09-28T05:44:28Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > What does that have to do with the price of shit in a barn? Clitoral mutilation is cultural too-- is that ok? Genital multilation is a pretty common part of the United States culture too. The difference between that and dogfighting is that doctors who perform these operations don’t deny doing so, or try to hide it. If dogfighting were part of his culture, then why did Vick lie about being a part of it, rather than try to glorify it? It’s not a culture, it’s a crime, and Vick is nothing more than a criminal. There is no way that he could have done those things without fully well KNOWING that it was wrong, and he would be fucked if he got caught. We all know that the NFL seems to bat a blind eye towards having criminals play football. So he’ll be fine. But I’m not buying into his bullshit either. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/25 "2009-09-28T05:55:58Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > Genital multilation is a pretty common part of the United States culture too. ::checks forum:: Damn. I guess I can’t say anything more than :rolleyes:, and don’t associate your fringe, offensive beliefs with anything I say. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/26 "2009-09-28T07:11:59Z")
They may be referring to piercings which could be seen by other cultures as genital mutilation. At least that’s how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/27 "2009-09-28T07:13:26Z")
I think he’s referring to circumcision. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/28 "2009-09-28T12:36:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He did not just torture animals. He set up a kennel and raised the dogs to fight ,He built a fighting ring. He strangled dogs that did not perform well enough. He watched them get torn apart and enjoyed it. > It was not an incident. He was involved in systematically killing and maiming dogs for fun. I can forgive a person who gets in an accident. I can forgive a person who makes a mistake. This is much. much bigger ,and more involved. It shows character. it shows his disrespect for the lives of animals. It shows a continuing disobeying of laws It was not a felony. It was a whole bunch of them for a long time. It is more. QFT. Beyond “his disrespect for the lives of animals”, he’s also showing disrespect for the lives of humans. By breeding dangerous dogs, he’s enabling walking deadly weapons. Next time you hear of someone getting maimed or killed in a pit bull attack, think of Michael Vick. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/29 "2009-09-28T13:06:04Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > ::checks forum:: > > Damn. I guess I can’t say anything more than :rolleyes:, and don’t associate your fringe, offensive beliefs with anything I say. I think fusoya got whooshed, because it looks like he thought you were defending FGM. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/30 "2009-09-28T14:03:28Z")
There was a thing released on NPR about the dog fighting sub-culture and how people get started in it as kids on recently (I think it was a weekend ago, not last weekend.) I can’t search it out right now but it was very informative. I grew up around the cock fighting subculture when I was a kid. Thats some nasty shit if you ask me. Imagine wiring razor blades to your arms and legs and going out to do some MMA. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/31 "2009-09-28T15:19:07Z")
As long as Leonard Little is getting cheered in the NFL then Michael Vick is welcome as well. As abhorrent as dogfighting is, killing someone drunk driving (and then getting caught DUI a second time) is worse, no matter your culture. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/32 "2009-09-28T20:31:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Well, contrary to most Christians, this atheist believes in forgiveness. But Vick is nowhere near it yet. It’s been, what, a year? Two and a half, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/33 "2009-09-28T20:41:57Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Two and a half, actually. One of one, two and a half of another, it doesn’t make a difference. It’s not been very long, and the rest of my post stands on its own. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/34 "2009-09-28T20:44:09Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I know everything about that dogfighting fucker I want or need to know. Here’s hoping he blows out a knee, or otherwise suffers a career ending injury. and > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Blows out a knee? I hope he blows out a blood vessel in his brain and then has to spend the rest of his life paralyzed. Wow, are you guys being literal when you say those things? Do you really wish him bodily harm or death? I don’t like Michael Vick either, but he’s served his time. If you don’t think it was harsh enough, change the system. It’s beyond me to seriously wish another human death (or career ending injury). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/35 "2009-09-28T20:44:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > One of one, two and a half of another, it doesn’t make a difference. Then why ask? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/36 "2009-09-28T20:46:01Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Then why ask? Are you kidding me? You really think I was asking? Get out of town. Stop bothering me. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/37 "2009-09-28T20:49:41Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Are you kidding me? You really think I was asking? Get out of town. Stop bothering me. What did you do use the question mark and wrong time frame by mistake? A typo? Help us out here, we’re simple. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/38 "2009-09-28T20:50:53Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Are you kidding me? You really think I was asking? Get out of town. Stop bothering me. You seemed to be making the point, via a rhetorical question, that not enough time had elapsed. When informed that much more time had elapsed, you said it didn’t matter. Why make the point about elapsed time if it doesn’t matter? Why does it bother you when your inconsistencies are pointed out? I’d think you would appreciate it. I know I do. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/39 "2009-09-28T20:52:08Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > we’re simple. That much is clear. Hey, you said it, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624/40 "2009-09-28T20:53:31Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > As long as Leonard Little is getting cheered in the NFL then Michael Vick is welcome as well. As abhorrent as dogfighting is, killing someone drunk driving (and then getting caught DUI a second time) is worse, no matter your culture. Drunk driving is a horrible thing, and shows extremely poor judgment. However, Michael Vick didn’t get drunk and accidentally kill a dog. He (among other things) melodiously and intentionally held a dogs head underwater and drowned it. They’re both horrible deeds, and both need to be punished. I just don’t know if you can only use a simple comparisons of the value of a human life to that of an animal’s life as the only way to determine which is worse. They’re both heinously bad in their own way. As an example, (While some would disagree, most wouldn’t) flip the scenario. If a person held a human’s head under water until he died, or got drunk and accidentally killed a dog this would be a completely different conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-thought-you-knew-michael-vick/511624.md?page=3)