# If you took a cave man baby and raised it in 2010 would it have a normal IQ and do OK in School? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702 "2010-07-23T12:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/41 "2010-07-23T16:52:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I think _Homo Erectus_ would get teased pretty mercilessly. There’s a Far Side cartoon in there somewhere… \* _Men in lab coats watch something off-panel as flailing children and chunks of playground equipment go flying by their heads_\* “The Homo Erectus cloning program went well until the other children leaned what little Billy’s species was named.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/42 "2010-07-23T16:54:53Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Other than echoing the genetic differences mentioned in post #8, I’d add that nutrition could be a major factor. If we’re taking a baby that survived a stone-age pregnancy, there’s a higher chance that the mother lived in circumstances that didn’t provide her with what we’d consider proper nutrition. People nowadays make a big deal about beefing up on folic acid and other supplements… but this baby would be taken from a period where mothers worried about getting enough food of any kind. > > Since you’re talking just one kid, it’s a crap shoot - maybe he got everything to be perfectly healthy and normal and maybe his tribe barely survived the last winter and he’s got significant deficiencies. But if you took a large sampling of kids, my money says they’ll perform less well than modern kids based on nutritional and developmental issues alone. Parasite load, of the mother during pregnancy and of the child in early childhood, could have an effect as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/43 "2010-07-23T16:56:10Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Ditto. (I was just thinking along the same lines.) > > Animals don’t wonder why, (and how) it rains. They just enjoy it when it happens. Humans did wonder about that stuff, and eventually much more. > > I don’t know when the big break into the more abstract realm of thinking occurred, but it is key, I think, to our history. For millions of years mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imaginations. We learned to talk. “These developments are often thought to be associated with the origin of language.[1] One theory holds that behavioral modernity occurred as a sudden event some 50 kya (50,000 years ago), possibly as a result of a major genetic mutation or as a result of a biological reorganization of the brain that led to the emergence of modern human natural languages.[3]” > **[Behavioral modernity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity)** > > Fertile Crescent: > Europe: > Africa: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/44 "2010-07-23T16:56:12Z")
Diet and general health of the pregnant mother plays a major role. A stone age baby might have developmental problems if mom was living off twigs and berries. Also, a stone age baby would have zero immunity from modern diseases. It would suffer the same fate as the Native Americans that died from disease after meeting Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/45 "2010-07-23T17:08:47Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > For millions of years mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imaginations. We learned to talk. > > “These developments are often thought to be associated with the origin of language.[1] > One theory holds that behavioral modernity occurred as a sudden event some 50 kya (50,000 years ago), possibly as a result of a major genetic mutation or as a result of a biological reorganization of the brain that led to the emergence of modern human natural languages.[3]” > [Behavioral modernity - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity) I am no expert (in anything). According to wiki, Homo Heidelbergensis and Neanderthalensis each also had language capability, although they did not flower into coat and tie wearing beings. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/46 "2010-07-23T17:09:51Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > However, interestingly, anatomically modern \*Homo sapiens \*existed for thousands of years before behaviorly modern _Homo sapiens_. Meaning, the flowering of innovation and artwork didn’t occur with the first _Homo sapiens sapiens_ 200,000 years ago, but rather 50,000 years ago. So what caused behavioral modernity? Nobody knows. I think it may have had something to do with that black monolith… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/47 "2010-07-23T17:28:28Z")
> [@Hershon4](#): > > Anthropology was never my strong point. I always assumed there were cavemen living in the age of Dinosaurs as I saw plenty of movies with both existing together! To get more specific again, let’s say the baby was taken when Man discovered Fire. Okay - just for some background - - How old are you? - What is the extent of your education? - You are asking this question with the intent of potentially sharing content on a blog - what is the purpose of the blog and what points would you be making where you would use the input you get here? Please note: I am NOT asking because I am trying to be snooty or mean. I am sincerely asking - because you are asking a question that, if one wants to answer it thoughtfully, requires an exposure to science that you do not appear to have. That lack of knowledge is NOT a bad thing - but it does raise my curiosity about your question, the level of detail you are looking for in a response and what you are thinking you will do with the input… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/48 "2010-07-23T17:34:14Z")
Found [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=571888)you started, too - atom bombs in WW2? Raising early man in school today? What kind of blog is this? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/49 "2010-07-23T17:59:00Z")
> [@Hershon4](#): > > "…Yeah and George W. Bush was elected President Twice even though he is an idiot and the greatest serial killer of American Citizens ever … Serial killer? ---
**Author:** ![SmithCommaJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@SmithCommaJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmithCommaJohn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/50 "2010-07-23T18:03:43Z")
Are we dealing with a 9/11 “truther”? ETA: assuming that’s what he’s talking about, 9/11 wouldn’t really be classified as a series of killings. More like a mass murder, or MAYBE a spree killing, given that there was no cooling-off period between killings. Of course, given the nature of the acts, none of the individuals involved could have killed in more than one location. Maybe if you put the blame solely on whoever planned it (despite his many, many flaws, I think we can pretty much rule out GWB), it could possibly be considered a spree of mass murders. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/51 "2010-07-23T18:06:01Z")
> [@SmithCommaJohn](#): > > Are we dealing with a 9/11 “truther”? I thought he was referring to Iraq. But I don’t care either way what he meant with that comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/52 "2010-07-23T18:09:11Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Found [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=571888)you started, too - atom bombs in WW2? Raising early man in school today? What kind of blog is this? Eh - my guess is that the OP is a kid. You simply don’t grow to adulthood without knowing that humans and dinosaurs didn’t exist at the same time. Even young-Earth creationists, who will sometimes suggest that they did, are aware of the mainstream consensus that they did not. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/53 "2010-07-23T18:17:38Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Eh - my guess is that the OP is a kid. You simply don’t grow to adulthood without knowing that humans and dinosaurs didn’t exist at the same time. Even young-Earth creationists, who will sometimes suggest that they did, are aware of the mainstream consensus that they did not. Yes, that is my assumption, too - but I want to be thoughtful as I ask in case I am mistaken. But it still makes me curious about the blog - if you don’t have a solid science grounding and are asking this question, how does a blog fit in? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/54 "2010-07-23T18:21:04Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Found [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=571888)you started, too - atom bombs in WW2? Raising early man in school today? What kind of blog is this? Next thread: **_What if Neanderthal Man had the Bomb? Need answer fast for my blog_.** ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/55 "2010-07-23T18:21:47Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I am no expert (in anything). > > According to wiki, Homo Heidelbergensis and Neanderthalensis each also had language capability, although they did not flower into coat and tie wearing beings. Why is that? Heidelberg and Neandertal are both in Germany. They _still_ don’t speak a civilized language there… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/56 "2010-07-23T18:22:18Z")
As to the OP, this Asimov story may be of interest: [The Ugly Little Boy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Little_Boy) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/57 "2010-07-23T18:23:56Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I am no expert (in anything). > > According to wiki, Homo Heidelbergensis and Neanderthalensis each also had language capability, although they did not flower into coat and tie wearing beings. Why is that? I’m no expert here, but the key word here seems to be ‘capability’; and even that is a matter of some debate. In the case of _H. Heidelbergensis_, recent research suggests that their ears [are very similar to ours](http://anthropology.net/2008/07/12/homo-heidelbergensis-ear-anatomy-indicates-they-could-have-heard-the-same-frequency-of-sounds-as-modern-humans) in terms of range; "…The results don’t necessarily show that the ancient humans could speak, Quam says. “We’re saying that the ear changed for some reason and that those changes facilitated the possibility of language development,” he says.” (from the link). Neanderthals seem to be in a similar boat (appear to be certainly capable, but it’s damn near impossible to prove anything), although their language capability has been studied [extensively](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_behavior#Language). Neanderthal extinction is something that has also been hotly debated; whatever the reasons it’s obvious that whatever language capabilities they may or may not have had was unable to save them, which is the name of the game in evolutionary terms, whereas ours either benefited us in survivability, or at least didn’t hamper us enough to make us extinct. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/58 "2010-07-23T18:25:18Z")
One offhand remark he made on the atom Bomb thread leads me to believe he subscribes to the old Socialist canard that wars are promulgated by the monied class in order to improve the economy, regardless of the cost in lives. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/59 "2010-07-23T18:26:40Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I’m no expert here, but the key word here seems to be ‘capability’; and even that is a matter of some debate. In the case of _H. Heidelbergensis_, recent research suggests that their ears [are very similar to ours](http://anthropology.net/2008/07/12/homo-heidelbergensis-ear-anatomy-indicates-they-could-have-heard-the-same-frequency-of-sounds-as-modern-humans) in terms of range; > "…The results don’t necessarily show that the ancient humans could speak, Quam says. “We’re saying that the ear changed for some reason and that those changes facilitated the possibility of language development,” he says.” > (from the link). > > Neanderthals seem to be in a similar boat (appear to be certainly capable, but it’s damn near impossible to prove anything), although their language capability has been studied [extensively](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_behavior#Language). Neanderthal extinction is something that has also been hotly debated; whatever the reasons it’s obvious that whatever language capabilities they may or may not have had was unable to save them, which is the name of the game in evolutionary terms, whereas ours either benefited us in survivability, or at least didn’t hamper us enough to make us extinct. Ok. Thanks for giving me something to mull over. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702/60 "2010-07-23T18:29:41Z")
_Caveman, where you gonna go bang all of your rocks today? Caveman, gonna take your club, and bash things along the way Well, caveman, with your hand-carved wheel that you push around while you hunt Hey, caveman got a dino pet whose tail wags when you grunt. You always wear a pelt, keeps you warm when you cross the veldt Short lifespan, goodtime caveman_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-took-a-cave-man-baby-and-raised-it-in-2010-would-it-have-a-normal-iq-and-do-ok-in-school/547702.md?page=4)