# If you want to turn left at a green light, you yield to oncoming traffic **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730 "2012-10-04T18:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/1 "2012-10-04T18:47:55Z")
I thought this was a fairly simple idea. If you are at an lighted intersection and you want to turn left, you may turn left if: 1. You have a protected left turn arrow, OR 2. You have a green light and there is no oncoming traffic (you must yield to oncoming traffic) Maybe my experience doesn’t match others, but growing up I understood this. When I started driving, I knew this. But over the years I started to see signs hanging from the traffic light wires that have to spell it out. “LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC.” It seems like a pretty stupid sign, that is the rule all the time! Now I have started to see other bizarre ways of conveying this idea. In Northern Virginia I have seen a light that has a standard green left turn arrow for a protected left, and then a blinking yellow arrow for a left turn that must yield. Of course, then they have to hang a sign to explain this crazy contraption of a traffic signal. Note: This only applies in the US and other countries that drive on the right side of the road. What was wrong with a standard solid green light, why does that not work? Why is this necessary? Note: This only applies for the US. Your local traffic laws may vary. Void where prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/2 "2012-10-04T18:52:10Z")
Because people are idiots. GREEN MEANS GO!! HERE I GO!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/3 "2012-10-04T18:58:23Z")
Just my WAG, but … I live in NOVA as well, and some intersections actually have a red left turn light while the light is green for going straight. (Or, to use the wording from your OP, they have a protected left turn arrow and a red left turn arrow the rest of the time.) Perhaps the yield sign is to distinguish intersections where yielding left turns are permitted from those in which they are prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/4 "2012-10-04T19:17:23Z")
I recognize all of the words in the OP, but I’ve never seen them arranged in that order before. I’ve been living in Boston for 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/5 "2012-10-04T19:30:22Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > Just my WAG, but … > > I live in NOVA as well, and some intersections actually have a red left turn light while the light is green for going straight. \ That is not particularly unusual here, either. It drives me a little bit crazy, every time I sit at a red left turn light waiting to make a left turn when there is no oncoming traffic and I could have turned ages ago. To add to the confusion, Yield On Solid Green also means yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk who have a walk light, you aggressive homicidal fuckers turning left onto Deerfoot Trail. If my walk light has come on, your advanced green left turn arrow is long over - quit yelling at ME when I have the nerve to walk legally. You’re the ones who are breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/6 "2012-10-04T19:40:34Z")
The flashing yellow arrow is a newish federal standard for unprotected left turns. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/7 "2012-10-04T19:42:05Z")
The OP is clearly overestimating the intelligence of the driving public. I don’t see many of these signs, but we mostly have green arrows. And btw - if you are stopped at a light and planning to turn left when it turns green - put on your turn signal, so I turning left in the other direction, know it is safe to turn and not wait for you to cross the intersection. Turning on your blinker as you start your turn shows you are unclear on the concept of turn signals. (Directed to the morons I see practically every trip to the supermarket from my house.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/8 "2012-10-04T19:44:04Z")
The turn signal on the car helps those of us behind them, too - if I’m going to sit behind you for a while, I’ll just go in the other lane if I know you’re turning, and this intersection at this time of day will make it a long wait. But noooooo, that’s just what they’d be expecting - an indication of what you’re planning to do! ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/9 "2012-10-04T19:50:21Z")
Here it is… > [@Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices](#): > > 2.Vehicular traffic, on an approach to an intersection, facing a flashing YELLOW ARROW signal indication, displayed alone or in combination with another signal indication, is permitted to cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or other such movement as is permitted by other signal indications displayed at the same time. > Such vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left or making a U-turn, shall yield the right-of-way to: > > a.(a) Pedestrians lawfully within an associated crosswalk, and > b.(b) Other vehicles lawfully within the intersection. > In addition, **vehicular traffic turning left or making a U-turn to the left shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles approaching from the opposite direction so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such turning vehicle is moving across or within the intersection.** (Bolding and a big fat DUH! mine) And, quoth the United States Department of Transportation: > [@US DOT](#): > > the flashing yellow arrow is now allowed in the 2009 MUTCD as an optional alternative display for PPLT or “permissive only” left turn movements (see Sections 4D.17 through 4D.20). NCHRP Report 493 describes the results of a comprehensive research project to evaluate the use of different permissive displays for protected-permissive mode left turns (PPLT), including the flashing yellow arrow (FYA). The research found that the most easily understood and most effective permissive display is the FYA in an all-arrows separate turn signal face for the left turn. An NCHRP (National Cooperative Highway Research Program) follow-up study found that **converting circular green permissive left-turn displays to flashing yellow arrow improved safety.** Flashing yellow arrow displays are also now allowed for use with permissive right-turn movements (see Sections 4D.21 through 4D.24.) (Duh-free bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/10 "2012-10-04T20:00:17Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > The flashing yellow arrow is a newish federal standard for unprotected left turns. Interesting quotes you there **gotpasswords**. Now I know whose fault this is, it’s the dirty feds! So, it sounds like a solid green was too complex for the lizard brain of the average driver and they needed something “less confusing.” I am becoming more of a fan of traffic circles all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/11 "2012-10-04T20:05:56Z")
Used to be (at least in California) that any given intersection had either a protected-left-turn arrow OR and turn-left-when-it’s-safe green light; never both. Nowadays there are intersections where the green arrow turns off, but it’s still ok to turn left when it’s safe. “LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC” really means “it’s ok to turn left, even thought the green arrow is not lit.” ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/12 "2012-10-04T20:08:01Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Interesting quotes you there **gotpasswords**. Now I know whose fault this is, it’s the dirty feds! > > So, it sounds like a solid green was too complex for the lizard brain of the average driver and they needed something “less confusing.” > > I am becoming more of a fan of traffic circles all the time. Yes. Too many drivers were too stupid to know what a green light means and were causing too many accidents. The nanny state up here has a lot more red arrows than other areas, but it’s still a problem to the point that some permissive lefts had to be converted to protected, at the cost if slowing traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/13 "2012-10-04T20:18:31Z")
It conveys more information, namely that you can turn left unprotectedly _and_ that you are in a left-turn lane (so don’t go straight) _and_ that you will get a protected left at some point in the cycle (so don’t freak out). (Okay, the last one is my own extrapolation. Perhaps they are sometimes used in cases that are never protected?) Sure, there might be other cues to this information, but redundancy (if provided succinctly) is always good. Give it a few years and those explanatory signs will be less necessary. But they certainly are at the moment, as evidenced by the number of people I’ve seen stationary and befuddled at the flashing yellow. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/14 "2012-10-04T20:26:44Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I am becoming more of a fan of traffic circles all the time. Just wait until the same green light idiots realize it isnt against the laws of physics to go either clockwise or counterclockwise in a traffic circle and sometimes one direction is shorter than the other 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/15 "2012-10-04T20:26:59Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Interesting quotes you there **gotpasswords**. Now I know whose fault this is, it’s the dirty feds! > > So, it sounds like a solid green was too complex for the lizard brain of the average driver and they needed something “less confusing.” > > I am becoming more of a fan of traffic circles all the time. I find a traffic circle to be more complex than a traffic light. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/16 "2012-10-04T20:33:23Z")
It is an optional sign, probably installed on the recommendation of the designing traffic engineer who approved the traffic signal/intersection plans. According to the 2009 Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, Section 2B.53 (previously Section 2B.45 in the earlier 2003 MUTCD), it and other similar signs may be used to clarify signal control. Among legends that may be used: LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY STOP HERE ON RED DO NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION USE LANES WITH GREEN ARROW LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN All of these messages seem pretty much a no-brainer to anyone who drives around. But, never underestimate the burning stupid of your fellow driver. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/17 "2012-10-04T20:37:01Z")
Yeah… once I had a guy turn left and cut off my path the second the light turned green. Yes, I mean all the cars were buffered on both ends but the second the light turned green he peeled out and cut off 4 lanes of traffic just to make his goddamned turn. It’s a miracle nobody hit him. I kind of wish there WAS a huge collision where nobody was injured just to get it through his skull, but oh well ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/18 "2012-10-04T20:37:31Z")
New Josiey doesn’t have this problem; they just have frigin’ JUGHANDLES almost\* everywhere. - When you finally remember to be in the right fucking lane you’ll come on one of the three or five actual left turn lanes in the entire damned state. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/19 "2012-10-04T20:43:19Z")
In any case, if you are turning left at an unprotected signal, move your car out into the intersection while you wait for your chance to turn! If you have to sit there and wait until the light turns red, so be it. No one is going to jump out and hit you and you will never be ‘stuck’ there. It is legal, permissible, and expected. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/20 "2012-10-04T20:49:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The OP is clearly overestimating the intelligence of the driving public. I don’t see many of these signs, but we mostly have green arrows. > > And btw - if you are stopped at a light and planning to turn left when it turns green - put on your turn signal, so I turning left in the other direction, know it is safe to turn and not wait for you to cross the intersection. Turning on your blinker as you start your turn shows you are unclear on the concept of turn signals. > > (Directed to the morons I see practically every trip to the supermarket from my house.) Ha, I once saw two cars facing each other just sitting at a green light. Neither had a left turn signal on but both wanted to turn left and were waiting for the other to proceed straight through the intersection. Took them a good 15-20 seconds to figure it out, just in time to make it before the light turned. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730.md?page=2)