# If you want to turn left at a green light, you yield to oncoming traffic **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730 "2012-10-04T18:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/21 "2012-10-04T20:50:24Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Yeah… once I had a guy turn left and cut off my path the second the light turned green. > > Yes, I mean all the cars were buffered on both ends but the second the light turned green he peeled out and cut off 4 lanes of traffic just to make his goddamned turn. It’s a miracle nobody hit him. > > I kind of wish there WAS a huge collision where nobody was injured just to get it through his skull, but oh well This is called a [Philly left](http://apexautoblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/philly-left.html#!/2012/06/philly-left.html). I recall learning about it here at the SDMB, actually. I’ve never lived or driven in Philadelphia, so I don’t know how common it is. But from what I recall of that thread, it’s a common courtesy there to let one or two cars turn left immediately when the light turns green (when there isn’t a dedicated left-turn arrow). Because otherwise, only one car might squeak through during an entire light cycle. The Philly left is definitely not kosher anywhere I’ve driven, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/22 "2012-10-04T21:01:08Z")
They do the Philly left here in Jersey too, along with not signalling until they start turning. That’s a fun combination. I’ve taken to assuming that every driver near the centerline is making a left turn, and adjusting my driving accordingly. That way, when they do go straight, I say “wow, he actually used his blinker correctly, bravo!” Makes for a more enjoyable drive. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/23 "2012-10-04T21:16:16Z")
Look, this is the country where lawnmowers now require a warning label to not put your hands and feet under it while it is running, all because some guy decided to pick his up and try to use it as a hedge trimmer, and was awarded a large sum for loss of fingers, because it didn’t have a warning to not do that. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/24 "2012-10-04T21:56:57Z")
Oy vey! It has a name? I thought it was just the Los Angelinos around here driving like – well, like they’re in L.A. or something. It’s like everyone on the road (whether or not they’re licensed to drive) seems to think “I’m a self-important left-coast resident. When the law says ‘Yield to the right of way’ nobody is more right than me so I get to have my way.” and if there’s a nanosecond break in the flow of traffic they’ll slam the gas pedal to the floor and try to slide their SUV through the gap, heedless of the gas, tire tread, or vehicular integrity wasted by the behavior. The signs and signals are an attempt to moderate the flow of traffic, but basically give the ticket-writers another way to nail us: failure-to-obey-signs. Soon enough someone will go zooming through an intersection controlled by the new yellow light and say, “I saw the light go off so I just went through. Really, officer, I didn’t know that was just half the blinking phase!” –G! Baby you can drive my car Yes I’m gonna be a star –McCartney & Lennon Drive My Car ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/25 "2012-10-04T22:07:20Z")
Minnesota goes as far as to _require_ flashing yellow arrows in all new permissive installations. They can be permissive only, and there they have the same meaning that left turning traffic must yield. Traffic circles- Richfield installed a two-lane one and accidents went up because people didn’t know how to drive one. The police interviewed on driver who said he was afraid of it so he always sped up when going through it to get through it as fast as poosible ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/26 "2012-10-04T22:22:32Z")
Did injuries also go up? Crashes in roundabouts are usually less dangerous, IIRC. But people not knowing how to drive on one is a problem. One-lane roundabouts aren’t difficult, but the ones with two lanes have special rules that no other roads have, and the ones I’ve seen have no explanation of this. (You have to yield to _both_ lanes, even if you’re turning into the outside lane. It makes sense if you think about it, but it’s still not the way we’re used to treating yielding.) ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/27 "2012-10-05T01:49:43Z")
Left turn arrows that turn green _ahead_ of the go-straight green piss me off. There can be 20 cars going straight, 10 each way, but the one and only car turning left goes first. That makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/28 "2012-10-05T12:35:23Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > According to the 2009 Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, Section 2B.53 (previously Section 2B.45 in the earlier 2003 MUTCD), it and other similar signs may be used to clarify signal control. > Among legends that may be used: > LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY > STOP HERE ON RED > DO NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION > USE LANES WITH GREEN ARROW > LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN > > All of these messages seem pretty much a no-brainer to anyone who drives around. But, never underestimate the burning stupid of your fellow driver. My personal favorite is STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS IN CROSSWALK which seems to indicate OUTSIDE CROSSWALK THEY’RE FAIR GAME ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/29 "2012-10-05T12:47:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I recognize all of the words in the OP, but I’ve never seen them arranged in that order before. > > I’ve been living in Boston for 30 years. My son who lives in Boston tells me that true Bostonians consider traffic lights as suggestions. I certainly grew up with the same understanding as the OP. One thing though is that at a stop sign, I believe that I have the ROW over the guy across from me if I got to the intersection before he did. Everyone seems to accept that understanding. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/30 "2012-10-05T12:52:49Z")
On roads where there is work going on, I see signs that say BE PREPARED TO STOP. My understanding of the rules of the road is that you should _always_ be prepared to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/31 "2012-10-05T13:26:24Z")
Traffic signal timing is about what moves traffic efficiently, not necessarily having the movement with the most cars go first. For uncoordinated signals the reason lead lefts are preferred in most situations is that 1)Drivers react to it faster than lag lefts, 2)If a left turn lane isn’t long enough and there is a lot of traffic the cars waiting for the left turn can block the through movement, and 3) The potential for the “yellow trap” if the lefts are protected/permissive and the left turns aren’t the same length. For coordinated signals it often works well to have one direction be leads and one direction be lags. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/32 "2012-10-05T13:31:11Z")
Here in NJ we NEED that sign! Too many dolts here try to left turn in front of you the second the light turns green so they don’t have to wait. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/33 "2012-10-05T13:53:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > To add to the confusion, Yield On Solid Green also means yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk who have a walk light, you aggressive homicidal fuckers turning left onto Deerfoot Trail. If my walk light has come on, your advanced green left turn arrow is long over - quit yelling at ME when I have the nerve to walk legally. You’re the ones who are breaking the law. Where can you turn left onto deerfoot? ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/34 "2012-10-05T17:00:52Z")
Another advantage of the flashing yellow arrow is it eliminates the “yellow trap” so lead/lag lefts can be safely used if it’s advantagous for traffic flow- The yellow arrow can keep flashing even when the through movement has a red ball. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/35 "2012-10-05T18:21:04Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > This is called a [Philly left](http://apexautoblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/philly-left.html#!/2012/06/philly-left.html). I recall learning about it here at the SDMB, actually. I’ve never lived or driven in Philadelphia, so I don’t know how common it is. But from what I recall of that thread, it’s a common courtesy there to let one or two cars turn left immediately when the light turns green (when there isn’t a dedicated left-turn arrow). Because otherwise, only one car might squeak through during an entire light cycle. The Philly left is definitely not kosher anywhere I’ve driven, though. Standard practice though I never knew there was a name for it. Hell, I did it on my _bike_ this morning. If I’m the first car going straight, I’ll hesitate for a sec when the light turns green but if you’re not paying attention that’s your fault. My experience is the NE, in general is faster paced/ more aggressive than other parts of the country. I was in Cincinnati & came to a mid-block crosswalk & a car stopped! That would never happen in Phila, NYC, or Boston. Good thing I was with a local who told me to cross then otherwise I would have waited for cars to clear before attempting to cross. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/36 "2012-10-06T00:56:19Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Where can you turn left onto deerfoot? 64th Avenue NE on-ramp - drivers are turning left to get onto Deerfoot, and apparently they notice neither the crosswalk and light there nor the pedestrians. After posting my post yesterday, I walked across that crosswalk again, and yet another car turned left right across me - I was already in the crosswalk when she drove right in front of me. If there are a line of cars waiting to make that left turn, I can almost guarantee that one of them will interfere with my crossing the street (legally) there. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/37 "2012-10-06T02:36:30Z")
Sitting in traffic, waiting for the oncoming to break, so I could turn, yellow light, first guy stops, I start turning, guy behind him jumps INTO THE BIKE LANE and hits me. I got the ticket. Cop said it’s always gonna be your fault if you’re turning left. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/38 "2012-10-06T03:57:37Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > 64th Avenue NE on-ramp - drivers are turning left to get onto Deerfoot, and apparently they notice neither the crosswalk and light there nor the pedestrians. After posting my post yesterday, I walked across that crosswalk again, and yet another car turned left right across me - I was already in the crosswalk when she drove right in front of me. If there are a line of cars waiting to make that left turn, I can almost guarantee that one of them will interfere with my crossing the street (legally) there. Oh, I get it now - I was thinking they had put in an actual intersection with lights in the far south or something. Yah, I would say trying to cross there would be taking your life in your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/39 "2012-10-06T04:24:01Z")
I grew up in Oregon, got my license at 21, moved to California at 24 and have lived there since. I was not aware that it was EVER legal to turn left without a green light for your lane. I’ve probably annoyed drivers behind me a few times by actually waiting for the signal instead of scooting in at a break in traffic :). I’ve also found myself wondering about a couple of other traffic questions. In California, right-on-red is legal unless posted otherwise (wasn’t the case in Oregon when I was driving there, took me a little while to adjust). In a situation with two or more right-turn lanes, can all those lanes take advantage of that turn or just the rightmost? Also, when making a left turn onto a one-way street, is it legal to do a left-on-red? I see both the maneuvers I’m questioning on a regular basis, but don’t do it myself because I’m not sure of the legality and can’t afford traffic tickets. ---
**Author:** ![W0X0F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@W0X0F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/W0X0F)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/40 "2012-10-06T16:27:56Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Also, when making a left turn onto a one-way street, is it legal to do a left-on-red? In my experience, yes IF it’s from a one-way onto a one-way. You certainly can’t do it if you’re turning from a two-way onto a one-way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730.md?page=3)