# If you want to turn left at a green light, you yield to oncoming traffic **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730 "2012-10-04T18:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/41 "2012-10-06T16:31:22Z")
> [@DummyGladHands](#): > > Sitting in traffic, waiting for the oncoming to break, so I could turn, yellow light, first guy stops, I start turning, guy behind him jumps INTO THE BIKE LANE and hits me. I got the ticket. Cop said it’s always gonna be your fault if you’re turning left. Sounds like an ignorant cop-I counted at least two violations on the part of the other guy (using the bike lane, running the red light, and probably reckless driving on top of that). I certainly would have fought that in court, esp. if thousands of dollars of damage and/or insurance hikes were in the offing. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/42 "2012-10-06T19:02:00Z")
Accident severity after the roundabout was put in: I don’t know, but both streets were 35mph so there probably weren’t that many severe accidents in the first place. There’s a few places in the state where one direction has a 65 mph speed limit. Double right turn on red: Yes, it’s legal to turn from both lanes absent any other instruction. I’ve seen signs “right turn on red right lane only”, and it’s more usual to have a red arrow or other seperate indication for multiple right turn lanes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/43 "2012-10-06T19:36:26Z")
Never mind, I didn’t see the context for a post. ---
**Author:** ![BluePat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@BluePat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePat)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/44 "2012-10-07T01:42:28Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That is not particularly unusual here, either. It drives me a little bit crazy, every time I sit at a red left turn light waiting to make a left turn when there is no oncoming traffic and I could have turned ages ago. I too live in Calgary, and for the life of me, cannot figure out why this idiocy was implemented?.. :smack: I mean, drivers must pass a road test in order to achieve a license, so making a safe left turn just seems part and parcel of that road test, thus why the necessity of inconveniencing and delaying cars making a left turn? Is it because it’s assumed not everyone can pull off a left turn safely? How did they get a license?.. 😕 I suppose if you were to ask the City why, they would give you the usual “safety” rhetoric :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/45 "2012-10-07T02:08:04Z")
I’m still trying to figure out the “Yield to Pedestrians” signs. Where, exactly, are the intersections where I have carte blanche to mow them down? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/46 "2012-10-07T02:38:45Z")
I don’t like the [stop for pedestrians](http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/fig2b_02_longdesc.htm) signs. The yield versions are fine, but the image of a stop sign shouldn’t be used for something conditional. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/47 "2012-10-07T02:54:35Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > This is called a [Philly left](http://apexautoblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/philly-left.html#!/2012/06/philly-left.html). I recall learning about it here at the SDMB, actually. I’ve never lived or driven in Philadelphia, so I don’t know how common it is. But from what I recall of that thread, it’s a common courtesy there to let one or two cars turn left immediately when the light turns green (when there isn’t a dedicated left-turn arrow). Because otherwise, only one car might squeak through during an entire light cycle. The Philly left is definitely not kosher anywhere I’ve driven, though. I’ve never in my life heard that called a Philly Left. Nor have I noticed Phlly drivers not honking at the drivers doing it in front of them. In doing a Google search the only place it is called that is on that web page you linked to. I have, however, often heard it referred to as a [Pittsburgh Left](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left). The first time I heard this term it was used by a Pittsburgh resident, as she pulled the maneuver and I held on for dear life. The people going straight didn’t seem perturbed by our going first. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/48 "2012-10-07T03:05:49Z")
Years ago an intersection in Carson City was one of the first to get a LEFT YIELD TO [green ball] signs for both directions. I was first in the left-hand lane, the light turned green and a kid going the opposite way starts to turn from the left turn lane. He abruptly brakes, honks, shakes his fist at me, then proceeds to drive into the path of the guy behind me. Apparently two lanes of traffic moving against him wasn’t enough of a clue. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/49 "2012-10-07T06:52:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The OP is clearly overestimating the intelligence of the driving public. Considering I see at least one person a week failing to yield while making a left turn WITH a sign telling them what to do, I’d say you’re on to something. Maybe the sign could be bigger so it can define the word yield. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/50 "2012-10-07T09:57:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I don’t like the [stop for pedestrians](http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/fig2b_02_longdesc.htm) signs. The yield versions are fine, but the image of a stop sign shouldn’t be used for something conditional. Depends on the law. They changed the law recently in NJ. In the past, you had to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk. Technically, all that means is that you are supposed to give right of way to the pedestrian, you don’t HAVE to stop, and you can go as soon as they are out of your way. Now, you have to stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk. The law says if there’s a pedestrian in the crosswalk, you must stop and wait for them to be OUT of the crosswalk before proceeding. It’s no longer legal to cross in front of them, behind them, or go around them. Lord Feldon, the main difference is that if the pedestrian isn’t in a crosswalk, you can’t get a ticket for driving around them. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/51 "2012-10-07T19:13:05Z")
Unless the law is that you have to stop at the crosswalk no matter what, a stop sign isn’t appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/52 "2012-10-08T04:24:16Z")
I was just driving through Michigan, where they have a flashing red light (round, not an arrow) on the traffic signal for the left-turn lane…which means you can turn left. After stopping. And oncoming traffic still has the right-of-way, so it’s not a _protected_ left (which is a green arrow, same as anyplace else). This was a trifle odd to someone from Atlanta, although I guess I can see the logic of it…a flashing red light at an intersection is equivalent to a stop sign–you have to stop, but after you stop, assuming it’s safe to do so, you can go. So, it’s kind of like a stop sign (of the “oncoming traffic does not stop” kind) for the left-turn lane. Of course, now that I’ve figured it out and Googled to confirm it, I’m a.) no longer in Michigan and b.) [it’s being phased out anyway.](http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620_10694-157538--,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/53 "2012-10-09T03:17:33Z")
And now I just saw one of the flashing yellow left turn arrows (in Wisconsin). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/54 "2012-10-09T12:55:25Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > The flashing yellow arrow is a newish federal standard for unprotected left turns. Your shitting me. Just completed a 4000 mile road trip. Colorado to the Eastern shore. I saw signs that said “Left Turn Arrow” OK. What the hell does that mean? Are they saying “Left on Arrow Only”? Or just letting me know that there is indeed a turn arrow. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/55 "2012-10-09T15:25:29Z")
There was a concern for a time with drivers, especially older drivers, being too stupid to know what an arrow meant so there was even talk about eliminating them in the late 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/56 "2012-10-09T20:57:46Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > In any case, if you are turning left at an unprotected signal, move your car out into the intersection while you wait for your chance to turn! If you have to sit there and wait until the light turns red, so be it. No one is going to jump out and hit you and you will never be ‘stuck’ there. It is legal, permissible, and expected. Apparently no one in my small town has heard of this, because they don’t move forward when waiting to turn left. They just sit there like morons. Unless there’s enough room on the shoulder to pass, that means everyone behind you is stuck there too. It drives me insane. I miss city driving. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/57 "2012-10-10T04:04:28Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Your shitting me. > > Just completed a 4000 mile road trip. Colorado to the Eastern shore. I saw signs that said “Left Turn Arrow” OK. What the hell does that mean? Are they saying “Left on Arrow Only”? Or just letting me know that there is indeed a turn arrow. They’re letting you know that the left turn arrow is doing just fine - no need to worry about it. 🙂 I don’t know why I’m surprised that there are drivers who are too stupid to know what a left turn arrow means. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/58 "2012-10-10T11:32:46Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Your shitting me. > > Just completed a 4000 mile road trip. Colorado to the Eastern shore. I saw signs that said “Left Turn Arrow” OK. What the hell does that mean? Are they saying “Left on Arrow Only”? Or just letting me know that there is indeed a turn arrow. I think of Dick Tracy comics when I see those signs. Or, children’s books by Richard Scarry. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/59 "2012-10-10T11:37:08Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > In any case, if you are turning left at an unprotected signal, move your car out into the intersection while you wait for your chance to turn! If you have to sit there and wait until the light turns red, so be it. No one is going to jump out and hit you and you will never be ‘stuck’ there. It is legal, permissible, and expected. I was told in Driver’s Ed that the legal justification is that a car already in an intersection is allowed to turn left on red. But…only one car! It’s bad when the jerk behind you sneaks through as well. That’s a dangerous running of a red light. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730/60 "2012-10-10T12:27:14Z")
In this town, they just installed one of those flashing yellow arrow signals at the intersection of two heavily traveled roads. Funny thing is, the next traffic light on one of the roads (and subsequent ones) has the old “Left turn yield on O” signs (the “O” is a solid green). Apparently, I guess, is all the idiots turn at the first one and there is nothing wrong with the others. Either that, or they are looking to confuse drivers and the collision repair shops chipped-in to pay for the light. excavating (for a mind) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-want-to-turn-left-at-a-green-light-you-yield-to-oncoming-traffic/636730.md?page=4)