I’d probably be keeping house and birthing babies. Or, y’know, dying in childbirth.
Worst reenactment society ever.
Up North the trick was to keep them moving in a Northerly direction. I can’t imagine living in a small crawl space for 2 years. In the home I stayed at the false wall was next to the fire place. You pushed on it and it opened to a cool room. It was summer and this room had to 20 degree’s cooler. I think they ventilated it? It was about 12x10 and was basic. From this room you could at one time take a tunnel to an outdoor cold storage cellar in the yard. I found a large old skeleton key in the cold storage shed and still have it. They were renovating when I stayed there and I know I stole a piece od history in that key. I should probably return it because of the historical significance.
My ancestors were staunch Patriots and fought for our independence. So hell yeah I’d be with the Revolution.
“How fared you during the Revolution, Patty? Your father made us all proud by his service to our nation.” Scarcely had I a word to offer in reply, save that I was but a wee girl at the time and passed those years in acquiring the arts of reading, writing, and sewing. Then I asked “And how did you fare then, Cousin Jane?” for I could see she was fairly bursting with her own account, to which she had sought mine as a preface out of common courtesy. She set about narrating forthwith:
"It was back in June of seventy-seven, when I was a lass of fifteen years, that the trouble reached here. Mother was away visiting her kin at the time. I remember that morning my father suddenly pulling Michael and me out the door and opening the cow pen. ‘Jane,’ he urged, ‘we must flee at once. The damned Redcoats have set the Mohawks upon us. We will make for Standing Stone fort!’ He saddled his horse and lifted Michael up with him, commanding me to see to the cows. So we went to alert our neighbors the Donnellys, and in company with them, set out for the fort over twelve miles distant, with me and the cows on foot in the lead and the men and boys riding behind.
"Around noon we paused at the Big Spring just long enough to refresh ourselves and press on. The fort was only two miles farther. Father cursed the British for first driving him and his kin from County Fermanagh and then pursuing our folk across the ocean to continue their work of destruction. Though the Redcoats never came here to Bedford County, they riled the fearsome Mohawk chief Joseph Brant to massacre our villages with wanton cruelty.
“Not five minutes after we had continued down the river, a sudden shot rang out from behind the bushes. We were ambushed by Indians! They killed poor young Francis Donnelly. My father helped Mr. Donnelly to carry the lad between them, for they feared his body would be scalped. Before we could get away, they reloaded, shot again, and killed Mr. Donnelly! Now we were stricken with such terror as I had never known in any nightmare.” Jane’s face went pale as she related this.
“A third shot grazed my father and carried off a lock of his hair! I feared he was done for, but Father spurred his horse and passed me by, galloping to safety. In his haste, he forgot his poor daughter who was left to face the bloody savages alone and unarmed!” She was clasping her hands together so tightly over her bosom that her knuckles went white.
“They quickly scalped both the Donnellys while I made all haste to escape. I durst not look back lest the gruesome scene afflict me with unbearable horror. But the enemy soon pursued me and before I knew it they had caught up with me!” She clasped her hands even more tightly, narrowing her eyes to slits and then suddenly opening them wide for emphasis.
“Oh, Jane,” I cried, “how you must have feared for your life!”
“Nay, cousin; not my life, but my virtue. For such was the Indian custom that they saved alive young maidens and carried them off into captivity, for the satisfaction of their basest wicked desires!” Jane glanced at me with evident pleasure at the involuntary trembling her words produced in me. I began to wonder how often she had related this tale over the years, to have perfected her dramatic flourishes so.
“What then?”
She held up an ear of corn. “They grasped my dress as I ran, and tore it from my back—thus!” She tugged the shuck away from the cob. “But I had no time to guard my modesty, with my virtue itself at stake. I screamed at the indignity, which panicked the cow in front of me. At the same moment, I lunged forward and seized the cow’s tail. This panicked the poor beast even more, and it set off running with terrific speed, carrying me after it as I held on for dear life. I left the Mohawks behind, and in a few minutes overtook Father and Michael. We reached the fort safely.” It was only upon hearing this fortunate conclusion that I released the breath I had been holding.
That evening before dinner, Cousin Bartholomew regarded me knowingly, and without a word removed his hat and parted his snowy white hair to show me his battle scar.
The above conversation is set in central Pennsylvania in 1789. From a historical novel I’m writing about my ancestors. This anecdote is an old family tradition which I presented exactly as handed down. I just put it in the first person(s) and into dialogue form.
As you said some Southerners stayed loyal to the Union including some high ranking officers such as Winfield Scott and David Farragut. Also national unity and moral superiority outweighs a minimal probability that you will accidentally kill your friends or family-one has greater obligation to the nation and morality than to one’s family or friends.
Not really, I was primarily pointing out the fact that they were not in majority as explicitly stated and that the Continental Army made good use of foreign troops as well. The fact that they didn’t wear red was just an aside.
Considering the Scots and Border Country roots of so many combative Southerners, I’m recalling how Scotland and much of the North of England had a large Norse input. E.g. the Danelaw and the Norse rule of Scotland. The myths of these Norsemen taught the concept of Ragnarök—that the defeat and destruction of the world is inevitable, resistance is futile, and that great sagas of glory are the numinous reward for the doughty warriors who shall go forth to their certain, pointless deaths. I mean, who wouldn’t sign up for such a deal?
Fine, my 6th Great-Grandfather. Recorded present at the Battle of New York, and at Valley Forge.
One other relative was enlisted, but spent his entire career in Rhode Island doing nothing, and one was a Marine on the Ranger and raided England.
Basically, of my relatives that were in the US at the time, all of them were pretty much pro-Revolution. It’s a family tradition. I’m pretty sure I would have served, if I was of appropriate age.
Well, I’d have been a slave, most likely. Hopefully that means I would have been plotting to escape and/or murder the oppressor who styled himself my owner.
Actually, make that plotting to murder the oppressor who styled himself my owner, and then escaping.
Don’t despair, I’ve known that reference (end been confounding historians with it!) since I was 4. You now have the dubious honor of being on “The Inigo Montoya List of Weird People Like Me” list.
As for me? I’d have been the guy tossing the coin. 
Or running away to fight for the British who offered freedom to slaves who fought for them. Did they deliver? Yes… and no. Some got their freedom that way and were transported to Canada and the Caribbean, others missed the boat- quite literally- when the Brits were defeated.
National unity and obligation to the nation are very modern concepts and the Civil War was in large part their cradle; you had strict Unionists like Jackson and Lincoln but they were in the minority and some of the greatest statesmen in U.S. history were regionalist at this point. The accidentally killing friends is figurative- it’s not that your bullet will kill them so much as you’ll be aiding the side that does. As for morality, it changes with the times and the places; most slaveowners had no problem justifying slavery morally nor were most northerners or non-slaveowning southerners morally outraged over the institution itself (many northerners were outraged at the Emancipation Proclamation). Upton Sinclair’s comment that “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it” can easily be tweaked to morality; it’s hard to convince somebody something is immoral when their way of life depends on its morality.
I wish I could find the exact quote, but during one of his exchanges with his psychologist (Gus Gilbert, a NYC born son of Austrian Jewish immigrants) Nuremberg Göring said something to the effect of (paraphrased) “You wonder why we kept following when the war was lost. Do you know nothing of German culture? You’re talking to the military elite of the only culture that has every worshiped gods who failed so they we can enter a depressing heaven”. Whether it’s from the Norse or not I agree there’s definitely an element of that I think in southern history. The Lost Cause refers to the Confederacy but to borrow a line from Grandma Fontaine in Gone With the Wind:
Add to this that many were descendants of Tories from the Revolution and of the Indians whose tribes (if not they themselves) had been driven west. Also most of the very rich were nouveau riche or second generation rich- the south was where most people came to get rich in the early 19th century- so there’s that arrogance and that Calvinist (though not confined to Calvinists) “Look around you- God is clearly on our side” element as well.
And reading history there is almost an element of Götterdämmerung throughout southern history. I can’t think of a single way the Civil War
1- Could have been avoided after the late 18th century
2- Could have resulted in Southern independence or victory
Even Adams pegged that one in the 1770s and often thereafter. The nation was on a collision course with carnage before Eli Whitney ever saw the cat pulling the kitchen through the wire and after that it sped up.
Of course whenever there’s a few thousand acres planted with bodies people will see the hand of God in there on both sides. Perhaps because of my own Scot and German ancestry my own images of deities can be a bit dark and absurd and self serving. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn if there is a deity then they’re extremely whimsical and the entire point of the whole thing had nothing to do with states rights or constitutional issues or secession or slavery or emancipation but was strictly done because he (or she or they) wanted to see Hattie McDaniel win an Oscar, white inbred English speaking hillbillies in Brazil, and Mary Surratt get hanged and a periodic revival of hoop skirts among debutantes and this was their way to accomplish all of those for their pleasures; all else was collateral damage, just flakes of marble chipped away while going for the main statue.
For this bit of silliness* to be meaningful, we have to assume that the Skald existing in 1774 or whenever is the same man who lives in 2010. That Skald is a vengeful, treacherous, cynical chickenshit who’s not going to trust persons of a race willing to enslave him and his family, and who’ll be looking for the first opportunity to stab them in the back and/or poison their brandy. He’s not gonna trust the British any more than the Rebels.
*I don’t mean that as an insult. I have started threads at least 40 times sillier than this.
It probably depends on the Brit also. Suppose the officer was Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter and he offered you freedom but only if you ate your master- would you do it?
Personally I’d try to angle an invite to one of Baron von Steuben’s all-boy parties. He wasn’t really a baron and even the ‘von’ was an affectation, but what he lacked in bonafide nobility he made up for in bonafide gayness and loved to party, It Be a Rain and That Rain of Men Most Made being his favorite harpsichord song. (How gay was he? You be the judge: this is his monumentin D.C…)
I’m going to betray him at some point, so maybe.
Originally Posted by Susanann
The Revolutionaries of course!I would align with George Washington, Tom Jefferson, Sam and John Addams, Paul Revere, et al.
Frankly, it is really hard for me to believe that some of our neighbors fought against us. I hope those not on our side all got sent back to England.
Whether the british army was 30% 40% or 51% composed of foreign germans, the point is there were too many germans on the other side.
My point is that the British army was mostly from outsiders, foreigners, people I didnt know and never heard of, and a good percentage of them didnt even speak English.
Even the british soldiers were mostly from England - i.e. they were not “Americans”. They were not “us”.
My side was mostly made up of my own neighbors, of people who lived in my town, or in my state/colony, or in a bordering state/colony who I grew up with.
I could identify and fight along side of somebody who lived his whole life in Stow, West Action, Concord, or Agawam. I also would feel akin to fellow comrades from Virginia, Vermont, Pennsylvania. I knew and grew up with these people. I knew the names of Washington, Revere, John and Sam Adams, etc. These, my fellow colonists, are “my” people.
I could never fight against people I grew up with or who lived near me all my life. Paul Revere and the Adams, and other revolutionaries were pretty well known in my town.
There is NO WAY!!! I could identify, or fight, along side of foreign professional soldiers from Germany or fight with professional soldiers from England. I didnt even know thoese guys from Germany or England.
It was really not very hard at all to pick the side of Jefferson, Washington, Revere, Adams, etc.
At the time of the American Revolution, all belonging to me were still in the marginal parts of the UK, except for my maternal grandmother’s line, who were Mennonites in Germantown, outside pf Philadelphia. They weren’t great believers in warfare.
That said, David Rittenhouse was a pal of Benjamin Franklin et al, so since ol’ Dave was a bright light, likely I would have listened to him/ his cousins and believed in his explanations.
But still I would be tending the garden, doing housework, twice daily milking the cows, making candles and soap, sewing and knitting, baking bread twice a week, making babies, and so on. More or less what Grandmother was doing 100 years later.
an seanchai
The trouble is, this isn’t great history. In reality, the Loyalists were a very large group — the American Revolution was, as much as anything else, a civil war, and the Revolutionaries were perfectly happy to kill their own fellows and countrymen in pursuit of their cause.
Worse still, the Revolutionary cause was very much anti-conservative. Worst of all, it favoured treason over loyalty, change over order, violence over peace, and (arguably) greed over cooperation.
Nope. Couldn’t possibly be a revolutionary. And had you been there, Susanann, I’d bet anything you would have been less enthusiastic about it. The trouble is, Americans today view their Revolution through the prism of loyalty to the country that now exists (but didn’t then), the institutions that now exist (but really didn’t then), and the ideological alignments that now exist (but sure as hell didn’t then).
ETA: Easy for me to bet anything, right? It’s not like we can go find out who’s right. 
Well, going by my ancestors on my DAD’S side, we’re Irish-German, so if I had been living at the time, and had been one of them, I would probably have been brought up to hate Britain. And thus, I would have sided with the Revolution, simply out of spite. (My German ancestors were from Alsace-Loraine and Austria, and would probably have loathed the Prussians)
And the Irish parts of the family would probably have shot themselves before supporting those bloody British bastards! 