If you were Education Tsar

Great Debates
21

Oh, you’re saveable :wink:

I was thinking of teachers – considered good, and from good school districts – of my acquaintance, who don’t realize that red and green kryptonite from Superman comics are made up. Who teach English, but who don’t understand what phonemes are. P.E. teachers who insist that deep knee-bends hurt because they are good for you. Art teachers who can’t explain what perspective is (convincingly).

I was seriously suggesting that all teachers of academic subjects have their credential requirements – henceforth – changed so that, for example, librarians couldn’t get degrees without understanding any of the 100 most frequently asked questions in those various fields. So that a history teacher couldn’t get a degree without knowing anything about economics or philosophy.

I realize teachers put in long hours – for sports, they’re probably wisely invested. I doubt they are for other subjects.

22

**Oh, you’re saveable **

Hoorah!
Correction - incompetents
pv

23

Knew you’d be pleased. I just knew.

By the way, a number of those annecdotes were taken from real life and, ur, shall we say “personal acquaintances”? What gets me, a bit, is their “long suffering” attitude, accompanied by refusal to learn subjects they don’t “like”.

24

For the participants. But what about the library that doesn’t have any money for books because the football team had to have new helmets? The history teacher who doesn’t grade papers on time because he’s out coaching the baseball team?

Even for the players themselves, the benefits are dubious. They miss class when they’re off playing in another city. They get held to a lower academic standard: “Your paper looks rushed, Biff, but I saw that 60 yard pass last night. You must have been busy practicing, so I’ll give you a B.” And since bullying has been mentioned, where do you think the bullies tend to gather: drama club, chess club, or the football team?

But what about the 90% of students who aren’t on any sports team, never have been, and have never wanted to be… how do they benefit? How many of them even care whether East Valley or West Valley is going to state?

25

Well, since the FedGov has no constitutional role for education, I would first eliminate all federal spending on education, and then my own position of “Education Czar”

If I had to redesign the country’s education system anyway,I would probably abolish all government schools, and simply send parents a check to cover their childrens education, which they could use as they see fit. If they blew the money foolishly, then their own children would suffer the consequences,however, I think most people would take the money and use it for the best schools/instructers they could find.

26

This is a bit far reaching, but here we go.

End the Cycle of Poverty- The biggest problem with schools is not that the schools are poor, but that the people are poor. Poor people do not have things like books and art supplies and chemistry sets that spark the imagination and make learning a fun thing. They can’t afford to go to science camp or museums or cultural events or have tutors. Their parents’ don’t have time to volenteer in the classroom or sit on the school board or even do a good job helping with homework.

We arn’t going to see better schools until we see better parents. And we arn’t going to see better parents until we have parents that can confidently support their kids, seek higher education of their own, and have the kind of dignity that we don’t allow the poor.

Make College Free- If more people have access to higher education, we will see more parents that teach the value of education to their kids. A college education broaden’s ones’ horizons and makes one far more likely that one will raise a child that has a broad worldview and understands the benefits of education.

There are some ways of doing this short of the Marxist revolution I sometimes envision. One way would be to start a teacher recruitment program. Pay for college upfront for people learning to be teachers- a full ride, much like how the miltary pays for college. This will allow people in poor areas to go to college, and has the benefit of giving them a skill that they can use to pull themselves out of poverty (teaching is at least a steady pay check), will make them better parents, and will give them something they can bring back in to their community that will help everybody.

Schools need Equal Funding- In my high school, they tried to put in ceiling fans to cool us in the 100+ degree heat. Sadly they couldn’t because the weight would collapse the ceilings.

Meanwhile, the school being built up the street, in a much richer area, was a palace. They had a full sized theater with plush seating. The had up-to-date technology labs. They had a library with new books, and extra cirricular activies, and more then one honors class. They had things we could only dream of- even a giant rock out front with the name of the school etched in gold leaf!

Throwing money at the problem is part of the solution. A kid that went to a school that does not offer honors classes is not going ot be able to get into the college they want to- whereas the same kid in a school with a variety of honors classes can. A school that does not have an adequate counciling staff, or a decent library, or a school newspaper, or at least some technology- is a severe damper on the futures of these kids. Kids do not choose to grow up in the neighborhoods they grow up in. But they do know when they are being forgotten. They know when their school (or at least, the system that funds their school) does not care about them, and they instictually begin to not care about the school.

Give Teachers and Students both more Respect- Teachers are educated, trained professionals. Yet often they are not able to decide simple things like if they want to allow kids to wear hats in their class. It’s despiriting to say the least. Teachers are not cogs in a machine. We have to give them enough autonomy to do their jobs well and enough respect (and pay) that bright young people will actually want to become teachers.

Likewise, we have to stop treating our children like prisoners. The rules they live under are arbitrary and draconian- especially at the high school level. If you treat kids like animals, they are going to act like animal. Lots of smart successful young people drop out of high school just because they get sick of how pointless it all seems. Let’s get some real challenges in there- some real education- and allow them to take a little bit of responsibility for themselves instead of regulating them to oblivian.

I’m sure there is more. Smaller class size. More options for kids not going the college route. More challenging material. But a complete change in our social and economic system is enough for one post, I think.

27

First off, do away with the concept that “grade level” and age are somehow related. Everyone is different, and each person learns at their own pace. Create an environment where it isn’t awkward or embarassing to be in a class that has all ages represented.

If a twelve year old can pass graduate equivalency, let them proceed to college. Allow social stigma to motivate those falling behind not to get left behind.

Open the schools up to anyone who wants to attend. If a senior citizen wants/needs to learn high school biology, let them attend.

Second, do away with mandatory attendence. “Students” who don’t want to be there only create distractions for those trying to learn. Schools today do way too much babysitting, and not enough teaching.

Give teachers discipline authority. Not to assess punishments, but give them a three strikes rule. If they have to warn a student of discipline problems twice, once more and the student is bounced from the class. Getting bumped three times within one calendar year, and the student is bounced from the system for a year.

If someone drops out at 10, and then figures out at 20 that they NEED school, let them come back, at whatever level they test at, provided they want to learn.

Create requirements for civic privileges to be based on basic scholastic achievement. For example, you must be able to read at an eighth level, at least, in order to get a drivers license.

Do away with extracurricular activities, particularly athletics. Sure, athletics have their place, and they teach life lessons, but they shouldn’t have anything to do with the public school system. Celebrate academic achievement, not athletic achievement.

Limit class sizes. Increase funding for teacher salaries, and find a way to base it on merit, not tenure. Go to year round classes, the nine month school year is a vestige of a agricultural society.

Don’t privatize the public school system. It would be the quickest way to build a class society in the US, something we have done pretty good at avoiding. But do provide vouchers at a slight discount to the funding provided to public schools for each student. If the public schools can’t compete, even with a slight economic advantge, let them wither away.

28
  • Take the budget for sports, and divide it into a salary raise for the teachers.
  • Some system of random testing might be nice. I.E., have a panel of eduaction majors make a test of what should be being taught at a certain grade level, and give this test to a random number of schools.
  • Integrate sex ed into biology. Really, all the stuff is there already.

Though, really, there’s only so much policies can do. Teachers are needed.

29

I agree that we need separation of sports and school. Let the athletic teams be sponsored by the players, their families, the community, local business – whoever cares about them, but keep them away from the schools.

I agree that the fed govt has no proper role in education. I suspect we’d be better off if we completely privatized education, but I see little chance of that happening. But can’t we at least make it a strictly local matter?

I agree that we should let kids learn at their own pace. A variety of ages in each grade should be considered normal and acceptable. Perhaps we need some sort of ungraded deal for the first few years. Then, as each child reaches the point where he or she has mastered the basics usually taught in the first few grades, (s)he moves into 4th or 5th grade (whichever one is chosen to be the first “regular” grade). Kids might spend anywhere from one year to six to reach that level.

I think we will have to “throw money at the problem” – the things that need doing will cost money. One of the most urgent thing that needs doing is to end the current and longstanding two-tiered system. Upgrade all schools to the level of the schools attended by kids from, say, the middle of the middle class. This should be the number one priority.

30

This will be a hodgepodge of your ideas, and my reaction to them. I do like the idea of drug testing, but you should have reasonable suspicion of use.

Kids definitely need to understand the basics of education: grammar, algebra, basic world history, US Civics, sex ed., life skills (how economy works/effects them), and computer ed. Kids also need to know facts, no just the method to get them.

We need objective measures to determine how our kids are learning, no matter how flawed some would like to believe they are (they aren’t as flawed as those who oppose them claim).

Our education system is in shambles, chess WILL NOT help! Kids also need to learn that life sucks sometimes, and that not everbody’s gonna like you, DEAL WITH IT!

Would you go to a doctor w/o a medical school backround? Then why on God’s green earth would you send your kids into untrained teachers?

Sports also are an important part of many kids lives, so I believe that schools should be able to offer them.

31

I agree with much of what has been said so far. We do waste far too much money on athletics, for not enough return. And only a small fraction of students actually take part in athletic programs. Many sports require students to spend too much time practicing, forcing them to avoid studying.

Eliminating high-stakes testing. It’s a huge waste of time and money. Many students already spend two weeks a year doing tests for the state. Soon they’ll be spending even more time doing tests for the Department of Education. These tests encourage cheating, and they rarely focus on the topics that students actually should be studying.

I would take a close look at the idea of optional public boarding schools for the most talented students. Rather than establishing small magnet programs inside larger public schools, the top-level students could actually live and study in a place where they don’t feel like social misfits, and where the classes could actually be raised to the levels that would challenge them.

Eliminate vouchers. They’re a handout to the rich and middle class.

Finally, take a closer look at single-sex education. There are some problems with the idea, but there are some real benefits as well.

32

I’m wholeheartedly opposed to drug testing. The school has no authority to determine whether students are using drugs outside school hours, just like they have no authority to follow students with cars home to make sure they don’t break the speed limit. Leave law enforcement to the police.

Of course, schools have a right to know what’s happening on their own premises, and take action to prevent students from being intoxicated or making drug deals at school. But a positive drug test provides absolutely no evidence that any crime took place on school grounds.

33

Jacksen9 These activities are an important part of school climate. Competitve sports offer great opportunities for students to learn essential life lessons. I believe that there are some coaches and programs that do not have the proper priorities. Most programs provide positive experiences for participants.

I am a coach so I recognize the possibility that I may be a wee bit biased on this issue. I believe quality schools should find resources for a variety of learning experiences that take place outside of the classroom. Yes, I agree that the students that choose to participate in the activity or program will benefit the most. I think football is a costly program. I live in Texas. Football is huge here. Friday night football games are school events that are supported by the community. This support offers additional participation opportunities for countless other students. For instance, the band, drill team, flag team, cheerleaders, pep squad, and ROTC. Each of these groups would have a much smaller audience if they were a presenting a stand alone performance. Each of these programs offer quality learning experiences for student participants. These students participate in these programs in very large numbers. Our dance team has more than 70 members. Our band… well over 150. BTW, our school goal is to have a 300 piece band. These programs are quite popular with the students. They spend considerable time outside of the school day getting prepared for performance and competition. Most or all of these programs offer students leadership opportunities. The college application process is also something that should be considered. Many of the upper tier universities look for evidence that applicants are well-rounded. They want students that are active, eager, enthusiastic, talented, disciplined, and committed.
Mr.2001 - Even for the players themselves, the benefits are dubious. They miss class when they’re off playing in another city. They get held to a lower academic standard: “Your paper looks rushed, Biff, but I saw that 60 yard pass last night. You must have been busy practicing, so I’ll give you a B.” And since bullying has been mentioned, where do you think the bullies tend to gather: drama club, chess club, or the football team?

Most high school athletic teams abide by the rules of a governing body. In Texas the University Intescholastic League sets the rules that our programs must follow. They govern the speech and debate teams, drama - one act play competitions, band, etc. They are pretty strict about the amount of class time participants are allowed to miss. I will crawl out on a limb and say that your friend Biff probably has better attendance than at least 50% of the student body even if you include absences due to competitions. I strongly disagree with your assertion that Biff is held to a lower academic standard. There are cases where this happens. It shouldn’t. I believe these situations get publicized. We require our girls to be seated in the first three rows of every class. We speak to our kids daily about eager and enthusiastic participation in the classroom. We remind them of the importance of being focused, attentive, and polite every day. We communicate through email with all of their teachers. We get positive and negative feedback about what our kids are doing in the classroom and in the hallways. The teachers respond very favorably to our efforts. They recognize that it is more pleasant to teach kids that display the habits mentioned above. I say all of this to emphasize the fact that many athletes are actually held to a higher standard. Our program is not that unique. Most successful programs are doing similar things.

I do not think bullying is caused by football. I suppose some of these aggressive types may be drawn to the sport of football. I think some kind of pathology would be the common trait among bullies. Football does not cause this pathology. My experience with students that are involved with extracurricular programs indicates that these students are motivated and sincere about meeting the challenges the future will bring. I think it would be a mistake for schools to offer only academic experiences.

34

No student should ever be subjected to drug or alcohol testing unless there is probable cause to think that student is drunk or on drugs. Period.

Whatever wonderful benefits athletics bring, let them be brought in a separate location. Get 'em out of the schools. And why should the student athletes, band members, etc. expect HUGE audiences? A small audience of family members and friends should suffice. Or no audience; let them do their thing from the love of it.

35

Events are well attended. Students are quite dedicated to these extracurricular activities. I like the fact that their performances and events attract large audiences. I can’t think of one good reason why attendance should be discouraged.

School should be a place where students have a variety of learning experiences.

36

Hmm… Education Czar… What would I do?

Well, first of all, I’m a member of the “abolish the Dept. of Education and fire myself” school. The money that taxpayers use to support this worthless endeavor gets largely frittered away on beaurocracy. If the money were instead channeled into existing state and local institutions, we’d get more bang for the same buck.

That said, let’s pretend I’m Education God, instead. I would:

  • Eliminate the silly obsession with smaller class-size. From studies I’ve seen, a smaller class-size will lead to increased performance, all other things being equal. Problem is, money spent decreasing class-size is money NOT spent in other areas. Decreasing class-size is one of the most inefficient ways of increasing performance. A dollar spent buying better teachers is an order of magnitude more effective than a dollar spent decreasing class size.

  • Eliminate teacher training requirements. Any person who can do the job should be given the chance to, regardless of whether he or she is officially sanctioned by a piece of paper. Someone else asked if I would go to a doctor who had no formal medical training. If he had a track record of excellent performance? Sure, sign me up. Formal education is nice, but it’s not the be-all-end-all some people think it is. Heck, one of the best engineers I ever met never spent a day in college.

  • Implement vouchers. Completely privatizing education just isn’t a good idea, and I say this as one of the biggest free-market advocates in these here parts. It’s vitally important that everyone, everywhere be provided with at least basic education, and privatization can’t guarantee that. However, vouchers are a way to allow parents more control over where their kid goes, and as such amounts to partial privatization. It is important, of course, that these vouchers are substantial enough that they will do good for the poor as well as the middle class.

  • Get back to basics. Studies have shown that classical brute-force memorization works wonders for basic math and reading skills.

  • Keep athletics around - they’re good for building social skills, and get kids out of the house, as well as keeping them occupied - but de-emphasize them. Kids who aren’t doing well in class should be studying, not playing sports.

  • Try to reward parental involvement. Parents who care are extremely helpful in getting kids to learn. Athletic programs can help with this to some extent. Even lousy fathers love to watch football.

  • Keep standardized tests around. Yes, some teachers probably teach for the test, but the good ones won’t. And unless “teaching for the test” is something like “when in doubt, guess ‘C’”, it’s better than nothing. At least the kids will know a few facts and get the basics of reading and math, which is more than can be said for a lot of schools, now.

  • Eliminate tenure. The idea that a teacher can gain a certain seniority, after which they can’t be fired no matter how crappy they are, is tres lame.

  • Get rid of this zero-tolerance crap. Students expelled for having kitchen knives accidentally left in their cars is not effective safety management.

  • Emphasize problem-solving skills and critical thinking. Knowing a fact is nice, but knowing how to acquire that fact is even better.

  • Jeff