# If you were forced to prove you had a legal right to be in this country, could you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750 "2010-04-29T15:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/21 "2010-04-29T17:07:49Z")
Driver’s license and passport. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/22 "2010-04-29T17:12:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think if you were a legal alien in the US, you would make it your business to have proper documentation on you at all times. I know I would. If I looked Hispanic, I would. I think I’m very unlikely to be asked to prove my lawful presence, and if I were, I’d say, “I left my green card at home: could we go there so I can show it to you.” ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/23 "2010-04-29T17:21:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I have a passport, which I keep in a safe deposit box unless I’m leaving the country. You mean most people carry (and potentially lose) theirs? Why are you any more likely to lose it than anything else you carry? I have my passport with me most all the time. When I use it as ID in the States, quite often the person asking for ID will have never seen a passport - simply amazing I think. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/24 "2010-04-29T17:26:42Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > My driver’s license and my passport. Passport has my official visa in it, and I couldn’t get my dl without my passport and visa. You carry your passport with you? I keep mine in my file cabinet with my birth certificate, the title to my car, and other such things, unless I’m actually traveling abroad. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/25 "2010-04-29T17:29:42Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Why are you any more likely to lose it than anything else you carry? I have my passport with me most all the time. When I use it as ID in the States, quite often the person asking for ID will have never seen a passport - simply amazing I think. True, but it’s much more of a PITA to replace a passport, and having previously lost a passport (or had one stolen) may flag you for closer questioning when you travel internationally. I’ve seen U.S. bartenders refuse to serve people presenting foreign, and even U.S., passports as proof of age, simply because they don’t know what one looks like (even if the person’s info is in English on the passport). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/26 "2010-04-29T17:32:11Z")
Driver’s license. I can lay hands on my birth certificate easy enough, but I don’t carry it with me. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/27 "2010-04-29T17:33:07Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > \ > I’ve seen U.S. bartenders refuse to serve people presenting foreign, and even U.S., passports as proof of age, simply because they don’t know what one looks like (even if the person’s info is in English on the passport). Funnily enough, The Beer Incident happened in Wrigley Field in Chicago - a beer seller there was going to refuse to serve my almost 40 year old husband a beer because she wanted a “real” driver’s license (her exact words), not my husband’s Alberta driver’s license. She was willing to take our Canadian passports as proof of age, though. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/28 "2010-04-29T17:33:07Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Why are you any more likely to lose it than anything else you carry? I have my passport with me most all the time. When I use it as ID in the States, quite often the person asking for ID will have never seen a passport - simply amazing I think. I think a few reasons: first, it’s not as convenient a size. Second, it has a lot more value as a stolen item than most forms of ID, so it’s a target. Third, well, if you DO lose it it’s a HUGE pain in the ass to replace, far more so than the other ID forms which are normally all one ever needs to carry in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/29 "2010-04-29T17:36:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Funnily enough, The Beer Incident happened in Wrigley Field in Chicago - a beer seller there was going to refuse to serve my almost 40 year old husband a beer because she wanted a “real” driver’s license (her exact words), not my husband’s Alberta driver’s license. She was willing to take our Canadian passports as proof of age, though. It may have been here that I read it, but a Brit tried to use his UK passport to buy beer in Texas and was refused. He told the shopkeeper that it was “good enough to get into your country, it should be good enough to buy a beer” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/30 "2010-04-29T17:39:20Z")
A Virginia issued driver’s license requires [proof of legal presence.](http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/legal_presqa.asp) What states currently don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/31 "2010-04-29T17:41:49Z")
I could, I wouldn’t, but I could. I’d tell the cop to go fuck himself. Arrest me. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/32 "2010-04-29T17:47:43Z")
But what if you had somewhere to be? Would you tell him to go fuck himself vs going to your SO’s surprise birthday party, or similar? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/33 "2010-04-29T17:50:43Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > But what if you had somewhere to be? Would you tell him to go fuck himself vs going to your SO’s surprise birthday party, or similar? 😉 If you know me, and I like you well enough to attend your surprise birthday party, you’d know what my attitude would be. ---
**Author:** ![little\_bit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@little\_bit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/little_bit)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/34 "2010-04-29T18:46:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A Virginia issued driver’s license requires [proof of legal presence.](http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/legal_presqa.asp) > > What states currently don’t? States that don’t have lawful presence requirements = HI, NM, UT, and WA Here’s a list of State requirements… [http://www.nilc.org/immspbs/dls/state\_dl\_rqrmts\_ovrvw\_2009-04-27.pdf](http://www.nilc.org/immspbs/dls/state_dl_rqrmts_ovrvw_2009-04-27.pdf) (Warning: PDF) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/35 "2010-04-29T18:50:52Z")
I have my state-issued driver’s license, my voter’s registration card, and–perhaps most importantly–my lawyer’s card. If I get stopped for such a stupid fucking reason, I’ll be calling her. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/36 "2010-04-29T18:54:01Z")
No way I could prove it. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania could generate dozens of copies of my birth certificate and put it on the web, and there is a very early newspaper account mentioning me. Not even close to a satisfactory proof. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/37 "2010-04-29T19:06:36Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Funnily enough, The Beer Incident happened in Wrigley Field in Chicago - a beer seller there was going to refuse to serve my almost 40 year old husband a beer because she wanted a “real” driver’s license (her exact words), not my husband’s Alberta driver’s license. She was willing to take our Canadian passports as proof of age, though. Many years ago, at Mile High Stadium in Denver, the beer seller had to call her manager when I presented my driver’s license as ID. Seems she doubted that I was showing her “real ID.” I still remember the manager informing the beer seller that there really was such a place as Ontario, that it was in Canada, and that according to the government of Ontario, I was old enough to have a beer. So she should sell me one. I’ve carried my passport with me ever since when in the US, and it has always worked pretty well for proving my identity. I’ve never had an American police officer demand any proof that I have a legal right to be in the US, but I’d be ready. And, I’m also ready to buy beer with minimal hassle. (I hope!) ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/38 "2010-04-29T19:38:41Z")
I’m a white person in the United States. That’s my proof. (I can already hear the groans.) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/39 "2010-04-29T19:44:00Z")
My wife carries both of our US passports in her purse. If I were without her, there is no way I could prove I was legally in the US. When I recall how easy it was for me to get the Commonwealth of Penn’s Woods to issue a copy of my birth certificate (and in a name different from my birth name no less, see below for explanation), I realized what little evidentiary value it has. My driver’s licence is from Québec so that’s useless and nothing else says I am a US citizen. I am also dark enough to be be suspicious. When I was about to retire, my employer asked for a copy of my birth certificate. So I wrote the Vital Stats dept. in Harrisburg, gave my birth name and my current name and address and a check for the correct amount. Now about the time I was born, in 1937, my father was out of work and decided to change our name to something less Jewish sounding. (It didn’t actually help; when he got a job it was with the company my mother’s uncle owned.) But that new name was was we used from then on. I was registered for kindergarten under that name and continued through school, college, graduate school, etc. When I applied for a passport, I needed the signatures of two people who had known me under both names. The only two people in the world were my parents who signed the affadavit (under the new name!), but the State Dept. accepted that and I have had passport under that name since. What could I have done if they hadn’t been around? All I can say is that the government was not as bureaucratic in those days (1964). It was with some surprise that I got a letter back from Vital Stats that if I preferred, they would issue me the birth certificate in the new name if I could provide evidence that I had used it for at least ten years. I photocopied my AB and PhD diplomas and four or five old passports and sent them and got the birth certificate within a couple weeks. Otherwise I would have had to give a long explanation to my employer that I was really the same person as Hari Seldonsky. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750/40 "2010-04-29T20:06:32Z")
I guess I’d be screwed. I don’t have a valid driver’s license, my birth certificate is somewhere in a box in storage and there’s no way I’d just carry my passport around with me unless I was on my way into or out of the country. I think I’ll just stay here in Europe, thanks, where I have four different laminated cards as ID. I’m still not sure what they’re all for, but when someone asks for a card (like at the UHC health center, which is GREAT!), I hold them all out and they pick what they want. But I seriously cannot imagine a cop just stopping me and demanding proof that I was in the country legally because I “look like” I might not be! What an insulting experience that would be! And I \*have \*all the right cards! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-forced-to-prove-you-had-a-legal-right-to-be-in-this-country-could-you/537750.md?page=3)