# If You Were the Duggars... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992 "2015-05-27T22:34:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/41 "2015-05-29T15:17:44Z")
Well, I definitely wouldn’t have had my kids on a reality TV show in the first place. Be that as it may, once I knew there was a serious issue of ANY kind with ANY of the kids, I’d have pulled the plug on the TV show immediately and tried to get that kid some real help. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/42 "2015-05-29T15:31:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > … in addition to the fact that therapy itself has a far-from-perfect track record as well. I wrote this based on what I’ve read of studies of therapy in general and not therapy for child molestation specifically. I looked around a bit for something more specific and the only thing I found is [this review](http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/VS80.pdf) from 1995. Basic gist is that there is some support for the notion that therapy can be effective (though not for all kids and issues), but some studies show no effect at all on average. The assessment is complicated by uncertainty over the comparibility of control and test groups and by difficulties in fully assessing the potential long term impacts of abuse. And again, it’s from 1995 so the field might have progressed since then. But in sum, ISTM to lend support to the position that therapy should not be looked at as some sort of panacea and should be measured against other considerations, particularly in cases which seem to have had minor impact. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/43 "2015-05-29T16:57:33Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I (again, having been there) actually agree with this to a point. Far more damage was done to me by the adults freaking out and telling me I “must be” damaged/hurt/scared/fucked up than was done by the abuse itself. Dragging me against my will to therapists for months did \*not \*help; there I was told that I was being too brave and hiding my pain and would have to keep going back until I felt it. When the grown-ups keep telling you you’re doing it wrong until you start crying, and then praise you for your tears, it sets up some really destructive emotional and behavioral habits. > > But I think that was a lousy application of therapy, by parents and therapists who were doing their best, but didn’t do it right. > > I would still take the victims to a decent, well trained therapist with experience in child sexual abuse and incest (if I could find one) for an evaluation. I’m not an expert in “fine”. If the kid didn’t want to go back, I wouldn’t necessarily push it, but I’d do it at least once to get an expert evaluation, same as I would get an x-ray if my kid fell and hurt his arm. It might be broken, it might be bruised, but I don’t have the tools to tell the difference. > > And the parents and perp definitely need counseling. No excuses there. Something is broken in the household, and it lies with the older members, not the younger victims. As I said above, initially I thought I’d withhold therapy too, and for all the reasons you state. And I’m a huge advocate of therapy. However, a therapist doesn’t have to frame sessions around any particular issue. It doesn’t have to be a weekly affair. It doesn’t have to be presented to the child as anything more than a chance to play with a grownup other than Mommy and Daddy. (For an older kid, I’d probably say it’s a chance to talk to someone outside the family about anything going on in their life, and that like a diary, the details are kept confidential) If the kid asks why they have to go but no one else does, you could say it’s because it’s their turn to go. Maybe in a few months it will be someone else’s time to go.\* But I definitely agree with you that I wouldn’t automatically assume the victims have been traumatized. \*I know I am not a parent, so it’s easy for me to come up with these easy-sounding solutions. But I do remember being a kid who frequently yearned for attention. And I only had four siblings! I can’t imagine going through a mundane childhood–let alone one where I was abused–and having to fight for attention with 18 other kids. Seems to me that in a household as enormous as the Duggar’s, automatic therapy for the victims would be the safest course since it’s impossible for two parents to give all those kids the individual one-on-one they need to really assess what’s going on with them. It’s way too easy to fall through through the cracks when your parents can barely remember your name. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/44 "2015-05-30T00:17:28Z")
For all the people who say “therapy”: bear in mind, therapists would fall under “mandated reporter” rules. If the therapist is doing his/her job, taking the boy to therapy means he’s in the court system. That said, I have no clue. I mean, what the boy did was pretty heinous, and utterly wrong, on the other hand I’d basically be choosing which of the kids to destroy (the perpetrator, or the victims). Either way is going to leave everyone involved feeling like shit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/45 "2015-05-31T06:10:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > People are saying this but I’ve watched the show and not seen this. They are more of a “lead by example” type. > > For example their was this episode where they were in New York City and they did things like any other normal family would do - went to a park, ate pizza at as famous NYC pizzeria, saw the sites, etc… they didnt go around pointing out strange people. They were also open about posing for pictures and giving autographs to anyone who asked (including one police officer). It’s “reality tv” which is about as real as Kim Kardashian’s boobs. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/46 "2015-05-31T12:06:52Z")
And really, what family wouldnt turn down earning $25,000 - $40,000 per weekly episode? Consider the “balloon boy” family a few years ago who were trying to get there own reality show. Consider the show “Wife Swap” which families would earn $20,000 to be on. They had plenty of takers and many were doing it to advertise there businesses. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/47 "2015-05-31T13:17:51Z")
I can’t imagine wanting to be on a reality show. I have black drape so people can’t see in my windows, not even shadows, and I’m on the third floor. I hate the thought of lack of privacy. When I was a kid and a teenager, I wanted to be the center of attention, but the older I got, the more content I was to be on the sidelines (and the easier it got to keep my mouth shut), so I consider adults who want to prance around in front of cameras (as themselves, mind you, in their own homes, showing off their mundaneness, as opposed to professional actors\*), spouting off on all topics, to be immature, still operating emotionally as adolescents in some fundamental way. They may be able to handle money, and drive without getting into an accident every month, and plan ahead to a much better degree than a teenager, but there’s still something in them screaming “Look at ME! look at ME!” that never grew up. \*about whom I still wonder a little ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/48 "2015-06-01T04:14:41Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I can’t imagine wanting to be on a reality show. I have black drape so people can’t see in my windows, not even shadows, and I’m on the third floor. I hate the thought of lack of privacy. > > When I was a kid and a teenager, I wanted to be the center of attention, but the older I got, the more content I was to be on the sidelines (and the easier it got to keep my mouth shut), so I consider adults who want to prance around in front of cameras (as themselves, mind you, in their own homes, showing off their mundaneness, as opposed to professional actors\*), spouting off on all topics, to be immature, still operating emotionally as adolescents in some fundamental way. They may be able to handle money, and drive without getting into an accident every month, and plan ahead to a much better degree than a teenager, but there’s still something in them screaming “Look at ME! look at ME!” that never grew up. > > \*about whom I still wonder a little But, your not them. Some people crave the attention not to mention the money. For example, read about the characters of Duck Dynasty [LINK](http://www.celebritynetworth.com/dl/duck-dynasty/), and how even some minor characters have a net worth over over $1 million. Thats more money than most people would ever make in their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/49 "2015-06-04T22:08:17Z")
Some discussion of the options in that circumstance: [Did Duggars Do the Right Thing When Son Confessed to Sex Abuse?](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ddid-duggars-do-right-thing-about-sex-abuse-n369836) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/50 "2015-06-04T22:24:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How would you do this? > > Little girl: “Daddy, Josh touched my privates last night when he thought I was asleep.” > > Daddy: “Josh, is this true?” > > Josh: “Of course not! She’s lying!” > > Daddy: “I cannot ascertain the truthiness of what you’re saying, little girl. Sorry. My hands are tied.” I mean I would use the legal system. If one of my daughters reported it, I’d question her and Josh. Then, no matter the answer, I’d report it to the cops. I’d request an evaluation by a trained police psychiatrist to figure out if it was true, maybe get social services involved. THEN I’d enroll the daughters into therapy to deal with it and beat up Josh. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/51 "2015-06-04T23:46:01Z")
Then you are special. In practice, the response to sexual abuse is nearly always to try to handle it within the family, or organization, whatever the case may be. Also, while there is a lot of merit to taking such issues to the legal system, which can use experts to attempt to get at the truth, it’s also outsourcing parental duties to the state, which is not really kosher either. When one kid beats another up, how many parents go to the police to get their kids charged with assault? I realize that sex crimes cause even more moral revulsion, but it’s still something parents should handle when it’s their children, if they can. If they can’t, or won’t, then the police should get involved. And I’d say the same thing about non-sexual assault too. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/52 "2015-06-04T23:53:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then you are special. In practice, the response to sexual abuse is nearly always to try to handle it within the family, or organization, whatever the case may be. > > Also, while there is a lot of merit to taking such issues to the legal system, which can use experts to attempt to get at the truth, it’s also outsourcing parental duties to the state, which is not really kosher either. When one kid beats another up, how many parents go to the police to get their kids charged with assault? I realize that sex crimes cause even more moral revulsion, but it’s still something parents should handle when it’s their children, if they can. If they can’t, or won’t, then the police should get involved. And I’d say the same thing about non-sexual assault too. Ah, yes. The very parents who enabled the sexual molestation should handle it. The little fuck committed a crime and got away with it due to his parents covering it up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/53 "2015-06-04T23:55:38Z")
They covered it up from the legal system. They did take steps to end the abuse and by all accounts they did end the abuse. Unless you’ve hauled your kid into the station for hitting a sibling, you believe in this method too. 99.9% of parents do not involve the legal system when a child assaults another child, whether physically or sexually. This is not a problem, this is what parents are supposed to do. It’s a problem when the parents are unable to effectively deal with the situation, which is alas very common. But the Duggars handled it better than most families in their situation. In my experience, most families stigmatize the victim, accuse them of lying, or do ineffective things like try to keep them separated, which is not really possible when you live together. Stuff that rises to the level of what Josh did are a lot more common than you think. The court system would be inundated if we turned in every child who touched another child inappropriately. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/54 "2015-06-05T00:07:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They covered it up from the legal system. They did take steps to end the abuse and by all accounts they did end the abuse. > > The court system would be inundated if we turned in every child who touched another child inappropriately. He was 15, the youngest victim was 5. He was hardly a child nor was it one child being curious about another. There’s no indication that he stopped other than their word. Which is worthless. Do you really believe he stopped at 5 incidents? If it was just curiosity, why not stop at one? It’s known where they got their belief system from and a part of that is that women are too sexy for men to be around and it’s the woman who bears the blame for tempting men. Yes, even a five year old is responsible for causing men to lust. The girls were even responsible for warning the menfolk if they saw a woman dressed (in their judgement) immodestly so they could avert their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/55 "2015-06-05T02:27:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I mean I would use the legal system. If one of my daughters reported it, I’d question her and Josh. Then, no matter the answer, I’d report it to the cops. I’d request an evaluation by a trained police psychiatrist to figure out if it was true, maybe get social services involved. THEN I’d enroll the daughters into therapy to deal with it and beat up Josh. Yeah right. You would do no such thing. You would do what they did and work it out within the family. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/56 "2015-06-05T02:31:26Z")
I also wonder if Yogosouth’s method would just get the kids taken away by child services outright. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/57 "2015-06-05T02:35:37Z")
Heck they built a house designed to totally separate the girls and boys. The Girl’s bedroom on one end of the home and boys on the other. You have to walk past mom & dad’s bedroom to get to the girl’s bedroom. There’s an exposed walkway connecting the two ends of the house that can be observed from either the kitchen or living room. They even setup rules, no girls can’t play games like hide N seek with the boys, sitting on their laps, or even letting the boys babysit the girls. All, apparently in response to what their oldest son did in their previous, much smaller home. They made as certain as possible nothing like this will happen again. > **[How the Duggars' custom home separates their sons from their daughters](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3111089/How-Duggars-built-custom-home-family-molestation-girls-bedroom-blocked-master-suite-boys-room-molester-son-Josh-slept-house-catwalk.html)** > > The Duggars, who have 19 children, moved into the 7,000-square-foot house that they designed and helped to build in Arkansas in January 2006 - four years after their son Josh confessed to his actions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/58 "2015-06-05T02:41:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Heck they built a house designed to totally separate the girls and boys. The Girl’s bedroom on one end of the home and boys on the other. You have to walk past mom & dad’s bedroom to get to the girl’s bedroom. There’s an exposed walkway connecting the two ends of the house that can be observed from either the kitchen or living room. > > They even setup rules, no girls can’t play games like hide N seek with the boys, sitting on their laps, or even letting the boys babysit the girls. All, apparently in response to what their oldest son did in their previous, much smaller home. > > They made as certain as possible nothing like this will happen again. > > [How the Duggars' custom home separates their sons from their daughters | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3111089/How-Duggars-built-custom-home-family-molestation-girls-bedroom-blocked-master-suite-boys-room-molester-son-Josh-slept-house-catwalk.html) So they admit what they did in response didn’t work. ETA: And they waited four years to build the house. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/59 "2015-06-05T02:50:08Z")
There’s still a whole bunch of kids in that house that are protected. The Duggars will be raising kids for at least another 15 years. LOL The last baby is what? A couple years old now? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992/60 "2015-06-05T02:50:58Z")
This whole thing was blown out of proportion to the point of being beyond rediculous. 14 year old boys are perverts! 1st offense you don’t call the police, you don’t call a counselor, you have stern talk with both of them. You relieve the girl of any guilt and teach the boy a lesson in self control and then watch him closely for an extended period of time. I know first hand of many cases of minor incestuous acts where brothers humped on their sister while wrestling, or copped a feel here and there and 20 years later counselors told them how bad it fucked them up. They in turn took it to the family and fucked up the whole family over something that occured as children. The News should be held accountable for this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-were-the-duggars/720992.md?page=4)