# If you whine about political correctness, you're a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671 "2015-07-20T07:12:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/261 "2015-07-25T23:27:03Z")
Hey, I thought we all liked free speech 'round here. Somebody calling a guy **BigTard** without responding to his argument has shown himself to be the dunce. Which exemplifies the (correct) belief that the freedom to speak your mind shows us who people really are. PC runs counter-current to that belief by forcing inoffensive, neutered language to be the only acceptable means of expression. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/262 "2015-07-25T23:37:29Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Start a new thread if you like… or not…, but as someone with 4500 posts and who has participated in some of the same behavior that THIS is the hill on which you choose to die. I find it bewildering and a bit disingenuous that you are overcome with the vapors over, not a only a regular occurrence, but pretty much a way of life on this board. Pile-ons are common thing on this board, and yes, I’ve participated. Some of my history here I feel bad about, no question. I’m sincerely regretful about past bad behavior. Over the past fifteen years, I think my posting has become both less frequent and more careful. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what it is about this guy that you find needs white knighting… See, this is the type of response that reinforces my belief that this is classic bullying. And you’re part of the bullying group, who generally counter outsider objections with that sort of redirected aggression “Well who are you? _Galahad?_” > [@](#): > > Off the top of my head, **Doorhinge** , **Adaher** , **Shodan** , **Clothahump** , **Smapti** , **Amateur Barbarian** , **ElvisLives** , **Scumpup** and, most notably, **Bricker** have all had their turn in the barrel from this board, deservedly or not. That **BigT** is where you draw the line seems weird. And here’s the other classic counter: “But Stinky here’s a giant dweeb! Why don’t you step in when other people are being kidded?” When you catch me doing drive-by potshots at any of those you listed, or anyone else, that are in the form of an in-joke slur without responding to anything they said or any reference to the point/argument/subject under discussion, then go ahead and call me out for hypocrisy. But just because I observe a behavior, in a thread in which I’m actually participating, it’s a bullshit objection that I’m not somehow policing other threads or “rescuing” other posters. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/263 "2015-07-25T23:45:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > BigT, for all his faults real and imagined, at least often tries to engage in substantive conversation. And he knew and used the word Shibboleth. That was cool. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/264 "2015-07-25T23:47:03Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > When you catch me doing drive-by potshots at any of those you listed, or anyone else, that are in the form of an in-joke slur without responding to anything they said or any reference to the point/argument/subject under discussion, then go ahead and call me out for hypocrisy. But just because I observe a behavior, in a thread in which I’m actually participating, it’s a bullshit objection that I’m not somehow policing other threads or “rescuing” other posters. > [@xenophon41](#): > > Now, what the OP did is point out that vociferous and passionate attacks against “political correctness” are almost invariably a signal that the attacker is a bigot. > > Case in point, your posts in this thread. > > Maybe you and **doorhinge** should get together and try and come up with a competent “gotcha” post between the two of you. Trial and error, my friend. When you don’t have anything else going for you, variation and repetition couldn’t hurt. > [@xenophon41](#): > > No. It isn’t. > > I have a theory. You _think_ “that’s what the fucking sandwich is about” because of two, and only two things: > > First, and most importantly, like **Furious George** and **doorhinge** , you’ve turned your brain off on the subject and made yourself into a fucking conditional moron. (With **doorhinge** , that condition includes almost every subject, but _his_ congenital tragedy doesn’t separate you and **FG** from the category.) > > Second, you’re fearful that the purity of your dominant subculture is under attack, that the mandated inclusion of other cultural, ethnic or religious experiences and the assertion of value and importance in those experiences is a threat to the continued privilege enjoyed by your subset of humanity. > > And you’re right to envision that loss of privilege and dominance; its disappearance is inevitable, and good fucking riddance to it. But you have to make up and then do battle against little fantasy constructs that were never put forward by your targets -strawmen like “[the] notion of a PB&J reference being inappropriate in a classroom lesson” and your idea that the teachers or students want to _avoid_ integration into the country rather than advance it more effectively. You _need_ to torch those straw arguments because it so painfully stretches your underutilized empathy and so stings your over-inflated sense of entitlement to conceptualize the ideas behind the actual arguments long enough to deal with them on a rational basis. > I’m aware you’re going to deride my theory as an example of rampant left wing twaddle, while you scoff at my soft-headed liberal idiocy. I’ll leave you to it. Enjoy. I wish you longevity and health so you can observe the ongoing cultural changes with all of your senses unimpeded. > [@xenophon41](#): > > > [@elucidator](#): > > > > Dunno, **Xeno** , he may just be following the Prime Directive of the conservative mindset: different, therefore suspect. Personally, I don’t eat Middle Eastern food, it makes me feel awful. > > Hey, it was a theory, I ain’t married to it. I don’t think it’s terribly valid in most cases, and probably way off base in my recent interlocutors, but there are some… conservative lights of lower wattage in this thread to whom I suspect it applies just fine. Dude, you did it in this thread. That you are participating in. Certainly 2 and 4 of that list, at least. Way after that “I’ve felt bad about my past” absolution moment. Unless that was triggered by my post to **BigT** , in which case, you’re welcome. Now I’m not defending this practice as such. I simply don’t find it a big deal. It is what it is. I find it odd that it’s being called out over this guy when, if we were going to call it out, there are much more deserving people of the defense. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/265 "2015-07-26T00:03:19Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Dude, you did it in this thread. Your examples show me being disagreeable, snarky and directly insulting. If you can’t distinguish that from bullying, or even from “drive-by” posting, I don’t know if we can go further until we share some understanding of what all of those words mean. Do you suspect I coordinated with a group on those posts, or that I’m piling on to a specific person (in those posts arguing with you, **doorhinge** and **Debaser** )? That those posts of mine were not arguing about a particular point or theme and joined onto a simpleminded slur or an attempt to stifle the participation of an individual? I’m happy to participate in a different thread about it if you’d like. Please link me to an existing thread or start one and flag me if you want to do that. But I’m now done hijacking _this_ thread. (Yet another thing I have to regret doing on the SDMB. Oh well.) ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/266 "2015-07-26T00:08:36Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Your examples show me being disagreeable, snarky and directly insulting. If you can’t distinguish that from bullying, or even from “drive-by” posting, I don’t know if we can go further until we share some understanding of what all of those words mean. Do you suspect I coordinated with a group on those posts, or that I’m piling on to a specific person (in those posts arguing with you, **doorhinge** and **Debaser** )? That those posts of mine were not arguing about a particular point or theme and joined onto a simpleminded slur or an attempt to stifle the participation of an individual? > > I’m happy to participate in a different thread about it if you’d like. Please link me to an existing thread or start one and flag me if you want to do that. But I’m now done hijacking _this_ thread. (Yet another thing I have to regret doing on the SDMB. Oh well.) No true Scotsman. got it. Deuces. No need for a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/267 "2015-07-26T00:11:10Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And he knew and used the word Shibboleth. > > That was cool. It’s a good word! ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/268 "2015-07-26T00:26:54Z")
Was also someone’s username, with a “0” replacing the “o”. Don’t know if they’re still with us. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/269 "2015-07-26T01:36:43Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > It’s the third and fourth ones. Obviously. > > If you want to defend the practice, go ahead. I’m not interested in arguing _whether_ it’s bullying; either other posters will agree or they won’t, and I don’t think that question lends itself well to persuasion after first consideration. But I’ll note that so far everyone who has justified the “BigTard” shit has done so by pointing out how irritating the target is rather than by attempting an explanation of the group aggression itself. That aggression by the way which includes almost verbatim attacks on the target from people who’ve had very little to no previous involvement in this thread. > > We have posters who almost daily give masterful examples of clever, pointed and thread theme appropriate, yet sharply dismissive or wildly insulting reactions to stupidity. Check the history of the poster just after your last post, **FG**. “Shut up BigTard” is to _that_ as Don Rickles is to the Algonquin Round Table. > > But it’s not the poor quality of putdown that pisses me off. It’s the pettiness, and the fact that _the pettiness is the only fucking point._ I don’t want to be a part of that, and I don’t want to let that sort of ignorance-perpetuating and victimizing behavior go unremarked, no matter how deserving anyone thinks the target is. > > I’m not “witnessing” by pointing out the bullying, and I’m not wrong that it’s a hijack of the thread, bordering on thread-shitting. Cyberbullying? Give me a break. Merely insulting someone on the internet is not “cyberbullying”. Most people consider cyberbullying to be outright harassment such as threats of violence, sexually explicit comments, doxxing, and usually they people as well as their friends and family via e-mail and/or social media. Just calling someone names on an internet message board during an argument? You’ve got to be shitting me. If that’s your idea of “bullying”, you’ve got it pretty damn good. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/270 "2015-07-26T03:34:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Cyberbullying? Give me a break. > > Merely insulting someone on the internet is not “cyberbullying”. Most people consider cyberbullying to be outright harassment such as threats of violence, sexually explicit comments, doxxing, and usually they people as well as their friends and family via e-mail and/or social media. > > Just calling someone names on an internet message board during an argument? You’ve got to be shitting me. If that’s your idea of “bullying”, you’ve got it pretty damn good. I am sorry **Guinastasia** , that is not true. Rational and kind adults do not talk that way. I have been cyber-bullied to the point of seriously deranged people looking up my parents and contacting them directly about stuff I wrote. Luckily, I am just an extension of my parents and everything I said was true and they will fully back me up on everything. However, the creepy stalking factor is more than a little disconcerting and you are at least as guilty of it as some people that are thankfully now in prison. Let me explain something to you very simply, I am neither for or against you unless you give me a reason. Yes, you can cyber-bully someone by calling them names repeatedly. Being nice to people in general is much more important than any grand social policies that people claim to support in the abstract. People are going out of line with **BigT** in my view. Can we get some basic kindness around here? You certainly do not demonstrate anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/271 "2015-07-26T03:39:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just calling someone names on an internet message board during an argument? You’ve got to be shitting me. If that’s your idea of “bullying”, you’ve got it pretty damn good. Start a thread if you’d like and I’ll argue the point. In your prospective OP, please consider including links to the argument you were having with **BigT** in this thread when you interjected your name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/272 "2015-07-26T03:54:49Z")
This is the fucking Pit. It’s where names get called. (This is where the Devil makes potty!) Whining about nastiness in the Pit is like whining about mustard at a hot dog restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/273 "2015-07-26T03:57:06Z")
If the PC police have their way, the Pit will soon be a shameful stain on the legacy of the Straight Dope, thrown onto the ash heap of history. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/274 "2015-07-26T04:01:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is the fucking Pit. It’s where names get called. (This is where the Devil makes potty!) > > Whining about nastiness in the Pit is like whining about mustard at a hot dog restaurant. No, it is still part the SDMB and some standards should still prevail. I am not a moderator but I have noticed the latter part of this thread has trended towards insanity and random, targeted abuse. That is not productive. However, it is a really good metaphor for the general PC movement. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/275 "2015-07-26T04:05:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am sorry **Guinastasia** , that is not true. Rational and kind adults do not talk that way. I have been cyber-bullied to the point of seriously deranged people looking up my parents and contacting them directly about stuff I wrote. I think that goes along with what I said – stalking people, and contacting their friends and family. > [@](#): > > However, the creepy stalking factor is more than a little disconcerting and you are at least as guilty of it as some people that are thankfully now in prison. Let me get this straight: are you saying that by insulting someone, I’m just as bad as a stalker who’s now in prison? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/276 "2015-07-26T04:16:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Let me get this straight: are you saying that by insulting someone, I’m just as bad as a stalker who’s now in prison? > :dubious: No, I am suggesting you don’t insult people so much. We have had our differences over the years but I always take back anyone as soon as they change their ways - you included. It is much more important to treat individual people with kindness and respect than it is to claim to support a particular political or social cause. It will pay big dividends for you and everyone else if you can learn to do that. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/277 "2015-07-26T04:19:30Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am sorry **Guinastasia** , that is not true. Rational and kind adults do not talk that way. I have been cyber-bullied to the point of seriously deranged people looking up my parents and contacting them directly about stuff I wrote. Luckily, I am just an extension of my parents and everything I said was true and they will fully back me up on everything. However, the creepy stalking factor is more than a little disconcerting and you are at least as guilty of it as some people that are thankfully now in prison. > > Let me explain something to you very simply, I am neither for or against you unless you give me a reason. Yes, you can cyber-bully someone by calling them names repeatedly. Being nice to people in general is much more important than any grand social policies that people claim to support in the abstract. > > People are going out of line with **BigT** in my view. Can we get some basic kindness around here? You certainly do not demonstrate anything of the sort. Shut up, **ShagTard** ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/278 "2015-07-26T05:00:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > People are going out of line with **BigT** in my view. Can we get some basic kindness around here? You certainly do not demonstrate anything of the sort. Kindness? In the Pit? BWAH-HAHAHAHAHA! > [@splatterpunk](#): > > Shut up, **ShagTard** High fives \*\* splatterpunk\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/279 "2015-07-26T05:22:10Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > But it’s not the poor quality of putdown that pisses me off. It’s the pettiness, and the fact that _the pettiness is the only fucking point._ The pettiness isn’t actually the point, in my opinion. The “shut up, BigTard” gag is basically shorthand for, “oh God, BigT is running his mouth and acting like some kind of wizened authority on human interaction when in fact we have all seen plenty of evidence of just how stunted and stupid he is. An actual reasoned response would dignify his idiocy just a little too much, so I’ll just express that he should shut the fuck up.” In all seriousness, when I read his post, I came pretty close to making the “shut up, BigT” response, but ultimately I opted not to. It wasn’t because I decided it was too petty or mean, but because it was so deserved that someone else would inevitably do it regardless. The only change I would have made is that I would have chopped the quoted portion down to: > [@BigT](#): > > [The nickname] came not because of stupidity but naivete. Because _that_ is the most laughable part of it. **BigT** : you’ve said a lot of stupid, _stupid_ shit and gotten called on it. Every goddamn time you attempt to start talking down to people you’re going to get kicked in the nuts, because nobody thinks you’re in a position to condescend. ETA: PS: calling someone a tard and telling them to shut up in a forum dedicated to insulting each other is not “cyberbullying”, you goddamn fucking shit-lickers. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/280 "2015-07-26T05:43:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > No, it is still part the SDMB and some standards should still prevail. Read the rules, kiddo. > [@](#): > > I am not a moderator but I have noticed the latter part of this thread has trended towards insanity and random, targeted abuse. That is not productive. However, it is a really good metaphor for the general PC movement. Agreed, agreed, and partly agreed. Abuse is happening, it is not productive, and it is a good metaphor for the “anti-PC” part of the PC debate, as this viewpoint can only function by calling out “PC” as a rude name. People who favor actual freedom of speech don’t blinker themselves by defending only one limited variety of speech, but defend all speech. That includes speech that is highly critical of other speech, which is all that “PC” has ever consisted of. If you insist that your speech must be immune from criticism, then you are not a true advocate of free speech. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671.md?page=15)