# If you whine about political correctness, you're a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671 "2015-07-20T07:12:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/401 "2015-08-04T21:38:28Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > Control of _language_, as it’s being discussed here, would only relate to graffiti if someone’s hellions were spraying ‘I hate african-americans’ rather than ‘I hate niggers’. Anti-graffiti laws don’t attempt to control language. Okay, fair enough. I used hyperbole, and you didn’t bite. But the problem is, your own arguments are similarly hyperbolic. You decry “control of language” as a bad thing, when it is, instead, the natural function of language in society. You’re still throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Civilization has rules of behavior, for the purpose of smoothing social interactions. We do discipline each other, by the thousand and ten mild social criticisms we encounter every day. If someone shouts seriously offensive words, he won’t get invited to many parties. So just bitching “This is control of language” isn’t a valid rebuttal. Of course we want to control some of the excesses of language. You can’t come and take a crap on my sofa, either. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/402 "2015-08-04T21:39:06Z")
> [@andros](#): > > You do you, man. No one else will, IPU willing. > [@Trinopus](#): > > You can’t come and take a crap on my sofa, either. The ghost of Rick James has just shuffled off disconsolately. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/403 "2015-08-04T21:39:46Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > At least I use sarcasm _as_ wit, albeit the lowest form. . . . Nah, the lowest form of wit is physical humor. (Hits Jack in the face with a pie, giggles and capers, then runs.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/404 "2015-08-04T21:43:08Z")
Your capers do make for some salty humor, **Trin**. The lowest form of wit is the pun, motherfuckers. . ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/405 "2015-08-04T22:24:43Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m surprised you didn’t jump on the “George Orwell” bandwagon. :rolleyes: > > If that’s what you and **D’Anconia** want to take away from my views, so be it. I ain’t stopping you. But damn, must be scary in there. You literally posted that changing languages changes minds, but I’m paranoid for quoting you? Hell of a metamorphosis you’re trying to pull off. Just own your shit. You want to control language so as to control minds. Own up to it, knock off the doublespeak. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/406 "2015-08-04T22:31:43Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > So you’re against disciplining children, and believe they should grow up without any moral training. That would be “controlling their minds” and you’re against that. > > Makes you a bad parent, that’s for sure, and a bad neighbor, too, with your spoiled little hellions spray-painting graffiti everywhere. Too bad that anti-graffiti laws are “control of language.” Raising children and limiting the range of acceptable thought are not analogous. But I like how you wrap your blatantly despotic politics in an appeal to the welfare of children. Don’t wear yourself out grasping for straws big guy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/407 "2015-08-04T22:34:30Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > You literally posted that changing languages changes minds, but I’m paranoid for quoting you? Hell of a metamorphosis you’re trying to pull off. > > Just own your shit. You want to control language so as to control minds. Own up to it, knock off the doublespeak. You do realize that “change” and “control” are two different things, right? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/408 "2015-08-04T22:47:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You do realize that “change” and “control” are two different things, right? Not if an individual or group is actively trying to drive and shape the change. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/409 "2015-08-04T23:17:00Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > You literally posted that changing languages changes minds, but I’m paranoid for quoting you? Hell of a metamorphosis you’re trying to pull off. > > Just own your shit. You want to control language so as to control minds. Own up to it, knock off the doublespeak. Ah, \*there’s \*the Orwell! Had a suspicion it was coming. I’m not sure why on earth I would “own” a thoroughgoing misrepresentation of my views. Of course language shapes thought. This is pretty clear throughout multiple disciplines. I can recommend several excellent texts on linguistics and linguistic anthropology, if you’re interested. [Here’s](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-language-shapes-thought/) a pretty good start. I’m sorry you find my views so offensive. I think you’re reading a lot more into my posts than I’ve actually written, and I think your seeking offense where none is intended or implied. I neither said nor implied that you are paranoid; I think that immediately jumping from “change” to “control” seems to imply a great deal of fear that I do not share. But whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/410 "2015-08-04T23:24:21Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Not if an individual or group is actively trying to drive and shape the change. Right. Driving and shaping change just isn’t something a _good_ person does. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/411 "2015-08-04T23:43:18Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Ah, \*there’s \*the Orwell! Had a suspicion it was coming. > > I’m not sure why on earth I would “own” a thoroughgoing misrepresentation of my views. Of course language shapes thought. This is pretty clear throughout multiple disciplines. I can recommend several excellent texts on linguistics and linguistic anthropology, if you’re interested. [Here’s](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-language-shapes-thought/) a pretty good start. > > I’m sorry you find my views so offensive. I think you’re reading a lot more into my posts than I’ve actually written, and I think your seeking offense where none is intended or implied. I neither said nor implied that you are paranoid; I think that immediately jumping from “change” to “control” seems to imply a great deal of fear that I do not share. > > But whatever floats your boat. You speak of “change” as though it’s not being directed, but it is. Can you honestly say that if language were changing in a way you didn’t agree with, that you would exert control to alter its course if you could? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/412 "2015-08-04T23:45:01Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Right. Driving and shaping change just isn’t something a _good_ person does. A good person doesn’t want to control other people’s minds. Personal autonym trumps social niceties. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/413 "2015-08-05T00:07:31Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Not if an individual or group is actively trying to drive and shape the change. Why does that make “change” the same as “control?” I’ve posted a lot on this board about gay rights issues, hoping to change people’s minds so that they’d support gay rights. Was I exercising mind control by trying to do that? Were the people I was arguing with, who were opposed to gay rights, trying to control my mind? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/414 "2015-08-05T00:08:25Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Personal autonym trumps social niceties. jsgoddess trumps social niceties? EXCELLENT NEWS. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/415 "2015-08-05T00:18:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why does that make “change” the same as “control?” I’ve posted a lot on this board about gay rights issues, hoping to change people’s minds so that they’d support gay rights. Was I exercising mind control by trying to do that? Were the people I was arguing with, who were opposed to gay rights, trying to control my mind? If you try to persuade somebody, then you’re engaging it a debate. But that’s not what I commented on. I commented on **andros** ’s comments about changing language to change minds. Political correctness does not work by persuasion. It works by coercion of language and the circumscribing of acceptable speech and opinion. Hence, speech isn’t being changed by persuasion, but by control of the language itself, with the aim of controlling minds. That’s what I object to. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/416 "2015-08-05T00:19:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > jsgoddess trumps social niceties? EXCELLENT NEWS. jsgoddes = personal autonomy? You think a lot of yourself apparently. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/417 "2015-08-05T00:20:22Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > jsgoddes = personal autonomy? You think a lot of yourself apparently. I do. I also think I’m a better reader than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/418 "2015-08-05T00:24:39Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > If you try to persuade somebody, then you’re engaging it a debate. But that’s not what I commented on. I commented on **andros** ’s comments about changing language to change minds. > > Political correctness does not work by persuasion. It works by coercion of language and the circumscribing of acceptable speech and opinion. > > Hence, speech isn’t being changed by persuasion, but by control of the language itself, with the aim of controlling minds. > > That’s what I object to. So, just to clarify. Scenario #1: Racist: Black people are stupid! Me: No they aren’t! Black people are just as smart as any other racial group! Reasonable debate Scenario #2: Racist: That guy’s a nigger! Me: Don’t say “nigger.” MIND CONTROL! Does that about sum it up? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/419 "2015-08-05T00:30:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, just to clarify. > > Scenario #1: > Racist: Black people are stupid! > Me: No they aren’t! Black people are just as smart as any other racial group! > > Reasonable debate > Scenario #2: > Racist: That guy’s a nigger! > Me: Don’t say “nigger.” > > MIND CONTROL! > Does that about sum it up? No, obviously not. But just as obviously, you’re dogmatic adherence to PC won’t allow you to look at the matter any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671/420 "2015-08-05T00:31:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I do. I also think I’m a better reader than you are. So you do think you’re synonymous with personal autonym? Please expound. Somebody with your great reading abilities must be an excellent writer as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-you-whine-about-political-correctness-youre-a-bigot/725671.md?page=22)