# If you're gonna use 'cute' misspellings, at least be phonetically appropriate, Edition II
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 11, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367 "2017-05-11T16:18:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/1 "2017-05-11T16:18:35Z")
Yeah, I [Pitted “Syfy”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=531720) and a few other offenders once before.
This time it’s the damn email spammers writing to tell me about a “Refi Notice”.
Look, asshole, I don’t conduct business with spammers anyway, and I’m also not trying to refinance a mortgage or anything else that one might wish to refinance. But that’s besides the point. Let’s just say, hypothetically, that some day I will be in the position of wanting to refinance something-or-other. And that I am therefore looking around and find your ad through my own searching, which would make it NOT spam. And let’s stipulate that I will not be aware that you folks have a history of spamming people when I do find your ad.
There’s still no way in hell I’d be doing business with you. Because you wrote “Refi”. You shortened the fucking word to “Refi”. That would (obviously) be a word that rhymes with “jeffy” or “stephie”. “Refi” is a pair of syllables that the word “refinance” doesn’t contain. You can’t possibly have any idea how fucking annoying that is.
You’re too stupid to be able to spam coherently.
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/2 "2017-05-11T16:30:12Z")
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> Yeah, I [Pitted “Syfy”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=531720) and a few other offenders once before.
You seem to be OK with “Sci Fi” as a shortened form of _science fiction_. I presume you pronounce this “Fi” the same way as in “re **fi** nance”? If so, why do you have trouble accepting that “refi” can be pronounced the same as the first 2 syllables of “refinance”?
Not to mention, “science fiction” actually does NOT contain the “fi” syllable.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/3 "2017-05-11T16:35:10Z")
How do you pronounce “WiFi”?
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### Author:  [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/4 "2017-05-11T16:49:18Z")
You do know that these spammers didn’t make up this “cute” abbreviation, right? “Refi” is an extremely common abbreviation used by many, many people, even by those in the mortgage industry.
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> How do you pronounce “WiFi”?
“Wiffy,” of course.
HiFi=“Hiffy”
Eli=“Elly”
Jedi=“Jeddy”
---
### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/5 "2017-05-11T16:50:45Z")
Erm…it’s a real, legit shortening of “refinance” that is, I thought, commonly recognized.
[WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/where-we-live/wp/2017/04/19/four-criteria-to-help-you-determine-whether-a-mortgage-refi-will-save-you-more-than-it-will-cost-you/?utm_term=.fc9c42513769)
[WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbnb-income-will-it-mess-with-your-mortgage-refi-1472488111)
[CBS](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dont-fall-for-these-mortgage-refi-scams/)
[Mortgage News Daily](http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/05032017_application_volume.asp)
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/6 "2017-05-11T17:28:29Z")
> [@scr4](#):
>
> You seem to be OK with “Sci Fi” as a shortened form of _science fiction_. I presume you pronounce this “Fi” the same way as in “re **fi** nance”? If so, why do you have trouble accepting that “refi” can be pronounced the same as the first 2 syllables of “refinance”?
>
> Not to mention, “science fiction” actually does NOT contain the “fi” syllable.
:smack: That’s a very good point.
I think I grew up with “sci fi” and it therefore crept below my offense-radar.
> [@arseNal](#):
>
> You do know that these spammers didn’t make up this “cute” abbreviation, right? “Refi” is an extremely common abbreviation used by many, many people, even by those in the mortgage industry.
> [@ZipperJJ](#):
>
> Erm…it’s a real, legit shortening of “refinance” that is, I thought, commonly recognized.
I did not know that.
It’s still bloody awful.
---
### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/7 "2017-05-11T17:45:06Z")
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> “Refi” is a pair of syllables that the word “refinance” doesn’t contain.
Really? Here is the pronunciation guide that Google throws up:
/rēˈfīˌnans,ˌrēfəˈnans/
That second option actually confuses me - I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone pronounce it with anything other than a long ‘I’ sound.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/8 "2017-05-11T17:49:03Z")
> [@Folacin](#):
>
> Really? Here is the pronunciation guide that Google throws up:
>
> /rēˈfīˌnans,ˌrēfəˈnans/
>
> That second option actually confuses me - I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone pronounce it with anything other than a long ‘I’ sound.
The schwaed second syllable is pretty common (at least in my part of the US) in my experience.
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### Author:  [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/9 "2017-05-11T17:54:59Z")
Well, I’m not with you on “refi” because how else would you spell the abbreviated word? “Reefy” has the same problem (rhymes with “beefy”), ree-fye is getting a little beyond the pale.
However. I grit my teeth whenever somebody drops a mic. Mike, okay, that’s how we managed to spell and pronounce it for years. I keep reading it with a short i.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/10 "2017-05-11T17:55:06Z")
ETA: Maybe “pretty common” is pushing it, but I’ve heard it often enough that it doesn’t draw my attention. I suspect I even pronounce it that way in rapid, spontaneous speech.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/11 "2017-05-11T18:19:46Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#):
>
> Well, I’m not with you on “refi” because how else would you spell the abbreviated word?
That’s probably the logical way to spell the abbreviated word, but the question is, what’s the desperate necessity for abbreviating it? Is the sender communicating over a vast distance in Morse code, so that every character saved is a major gain in communications bandwidth?
I’m with the OP in that the abbreviation is idiotic and unnecessary. It’s an attempt to be cutesy that just comes across as a lazy and unprofessional use of language. The “notice” part of “Refi Notice” adds insult to injury – i.e.- we’re going to use this stupid cutesy term and then add a lie to it, implying that this is an important notice from your financial organization instead of spam from a bottom-feeding douchebag.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/12 "2017-05-11T18:35:06Z")
TLDR
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### Author:  [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/13 "2017-05-11T19:32:13Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#):
>
> Well, I’m not with you on “refi” because how else would you spell the abbreviated word? “Reefy” has the same problem (rhymes with “beefy”), ree-fye is getting a little beyond the pale.
>
> However. I grit my teeth whenever somebody drops a mic. Mike, okay, that’s how we managed to spell and pronounce it for years. I keep reading it with a short i.
I’ve posted this link before, but here’s a good article that explains why mic is wrong, both historically and linguistically:
[Mike, dammit!](http://www.sambayer.com/tirades/whymike.html)
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/14 "2017-05-11T19:39:36Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#):
>
> I’ve posted this link before, but here’s a good article that explains why mic is wrong, both historically and linguistically:
> [Mike, dammit!](http://www.sambayer.com/tirades/whymike.html)
Over 8,000 words across 15 years on the evils of the abbreviation “mic”?
This could be a record for commitment to prescriptivist nincompoopery.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/15 "2017-05-11T19:45:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> The schwaed second syllable is pretty common (at least in my part of the US) in my experience.
This. “Finance” is often slurred into “f’nance”, in the same manner as “fo’c’s’le”. And the IPA schwa reflects this.
So “refi” should be pronounced “ref-uh”? :dubious: :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/16 "2017-05-11T19:48:28Z")
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> …I think I grew up with “sci fi” and it therefore crept below my offense-radar…
A classic of prescriptivist idiocy. When it’s pointed out that you yourself have been quite content with an exactly analogous construction, rather than weaken your resolve, you determine that you yourself must have been in error, and must try harder to conform to the rule that you pulled out of your backside.
In the words of the inestimable Geoff Pullum:
> [@](#):
>
> Prescriptivists claim that there are certain rules which have authority over us even if they are not respected as correctness conditions in the ordinary usage of anybody. You can tell them, “All writers of English sometimes use pronouns that have genitive noun phrase determiners as antecedents; Shakespeare did; Churchill did; Queen Elizabeth does; you did in your last book, a dozen times”… and they just say, “Well then, I must try even harder, because regardless of what anyone says or writes, the prohibition against genitive antecedents is valid and ought to be respected by all of us.”
[http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001843.html](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001843.html)
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/17 "2017-05-11T20:55:38Z")
[Dictionary.com thinks it’s a word.](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/refi?s=t)
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/18 "2017-05-11T21:17:40Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#):
>
> Well, I’m not with you on “refi” because how else would you spell the abbreviated word? “Reefy” has the same problem (rhymes with “beefy”), ree-fye is getting a little beyond the pale.
>
> However. I grit my teeth whenever somebody drops a mic. Mike, okay, that’s how we managed to spell and pronounce it for years. I keep reading it with a short i.
I agree with this. A microphone is a “mike.” The performer gets “miked.”
---
### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/19 "2017-05-11T21:26:54Z")
In the finance industry, refi (pronounced with a long “e” and long “i”) is very common.
However this week I received a request regarding “Resi finance” and I had no idea what it meant (I thought Resi was the name of a company). Some investigation revealed that the reference was to residential finance. I personally prefer to spell words out in their entirety for clarity, but there’s not much I can do about the way others conduct their business.
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### Author:  [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-gonna-use-cute-misspellings-at-least-be-phonetically-appropriate-edition-ii/786367/20 "2017-05-11T21:58:06Z")
Well, just to confuse things further, the combination of letters r-e-f-i would in fact NOT be pronounced “reffy” as the OP implies.
Take a two-syllable word with a single vowel in the first syllable, such as “major” or “bunting” or “better” or “whining.” The vowel in these words can be either long or short. There’s no way to tell just by looking at the vowel. The way to tell is to look at the consonant/s following it. In general, if there is just one consonant then we say the syllable is “open” and the vowel is long. Thus, “major” with a long A, and “whining” with a long I. If there are two consonants, then the syllable is “closed” and the vowel is short. Thus, “bunting” with a short U, and “better” with a short E.
This accounts for the difference in spelling and pronunciation between “diner” and “dinner,” or between “baking” and “backing,” or between “hoped” and “hopped.”
Yes, there are some exceptions, but this is really pretty standard. So the “e” in “refi” should indeed be pronounced as a long E, as in “eat” or “see.”
The “i” in “refi” is a little different, as English words in general do not end with I. That’s probably the one to complain about if you’re looking for non-phonetic patterns. (Though compare pi, bi, Lady Di, and Hi!) But the E is absolutely within the rules.
–Ulf, who taught first/second grade reading for 10-plus years
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