# If you're not safe in/around your house, where the fuck are you safe???? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235 "2004-05-26T20:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/61 "2004-05-28T02:51:23Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > No, as several other posters have already tried to explain to you, having a firearm and being trained in how to use it as a defensive tool is one possible way to protect oneself from dangerous criminal sorts with tire irons. > > No single solution is the be-all, end-all way to protect yourself, and none of them make a person invincible, as several other posters have already pointed out. > > Please grasp your shoulders firmly and pull your head from your ass. Oh, so guns are the answer then? oh, no, just “one possible way to protect oneself” - and everyone in this thread is not advocating this, oh, no - they are. Why do you think my head is up my ass? You are being quite obnoxious Catsix. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/62 "2004-05-28T03:00:39Z")
Well, you’re striking me as rather obtuse in this thread. It’s been explained several times that having and knowing how to use a firearm is a way to protect yourself. Why are you continuing to make it out like people have said things they didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/63 "2004-05-28T03:01:23Z")
Wow, interesting thread. Well, first of all, **Airman Doors** : I would not necessarily think you’re a loony man simply because you pack a gun around. I might well decide you’re a loony man if you yank it out and start waving it around in my presence, or blazing away at things that aren’t there. I mean, I wasn’t planning on lifting your wallet or anything. Especially now that I know you’re packin’ heat. > [@](#): > > It would appear you’re alluding to a general purpose self-defense tool that is better than a gun. What tool are you referring to? I’m dying to know. I must get one. _Attitude_. Proper _attitude_ is _everything_. A gun is not a magic wand. It will _not_ make you safe, and even if \*\*Airman Doors \*\* pulls his out and points it at me, it will not necessarily make me obey his every command. A gun is no more than a stopgap solution, and if you are not willing to murder me with it, then it is the next best thing to useless against me… as some have already pointed out. If the woman in question feels that a gun would work, then it’s up to her to obtain one, get the necessary permits and licenses, and learn how to use the thing… and be aware that it might not be where she needs it to be UNLESS she’s willing to pack it around with her everywhere… …and that if taken by surprise, she might STILL not be able to use the thing to defend herself… …and … most importantly… every time she fires the thing at the practice range, field-strips it, cleans it, and looks at it… she considers the fact that if the bad guy gets it away from her, that it may well be the object that kills her. Thoughts to consider. There is no real safety this side of the grave, folks. All you can do is buck the odds. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/64 "2004-05-28T03:39:54Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Well, you’re striking me as rather obtuse in this thread. > > It’s been explained several times that having and knowing how to use a firearm is a way to protect yourself. > > Why are you continuing to make it out like people have said things they didn’t? Perhaps he is (mis)interpreting the earlier statement that it’s “irresponsible” not to own a gun" as the statement that supports his POV? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/65 "2004-05-28T03:49:42Z")
Well, I can see how that’d be easy to do. I do think, personally, that a gun is the best available tool for the job, but saying it’s irresponsible to not have one is going a bit far. ---
**Author:** ![Grasshopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f19dbf/32.png) [@Grasshopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grasshopper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/66 "2004-05-28T03:58:35Z")
carimwc, This girl’s story breaks my heart. I wish her a full recovery, mentally and physically, and I hope her mother and the rest of her family are doing okay. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/67 "2004-05-28T05:27:35Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > If someone feels the need to pull out a gun and point it at someone, they’re already fucked, since that is an absolute last resort. Losing the gun could not possibly make them any more fucked than they already are. A little off topic, but anyway - I think a more accurate statement would be: If someone feels the need to pull out a gun and point it at someone, they **think** they’re already fucked… Certainly you’re familiar with the Amadou Diallo or Yoshi Hattori (the Japanese exchange student in a halloween costume) cases. The people who did the shooting honestly thought they were threatened, and the people who were killed didn’t even have guns. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > If you could, could you provide me with some sort of cite on the frequency of use of a gun that was stolen from a victim of an attack, please? I’m not saying that it never happens, I’m just not sure it happens with the alarming frequency that the “what-if scenario” people would like us to believe. I don’t have a cite for the frequency of use of a gun that was stolen from a victim of an attack. My point was extrapolated from the fact that police officers, who are highly trained in self defense and weapons usage, sometimes lose their weapons to criminals. How many guns make it back to the police department and how many make it into circulation I do not know. I can offer this, though: > [@](#): > > **Off-Duty Baton Rouge Police Officer Killed At Wal-Mart** > > BATON ROUGE, La. – A veteran female police officer was shot and killed with her own weapon Saturday night after attempting to detain a suspected shoplifter at a Wal-Mart in Baton Rouge. > > The shooter escaped by stealing a customer’s car at gunpoint after also critically wounding another customer who tried to help the officer. > > Also shot was a store employee. His injuries were not believed to be life threatening. > > Police declined to release the names of the wounded employee or the 51-year-old male customer, who was shot several times. [http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/news/3337340/detail.html](http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/news/3337340/detail.html) A police officer killed with her own gun, an employee wounded by the officer’s gun, a car stolen using the officer’s gun, a critically wounded good samaritan shot by the officer’s gun, and the officer’s gun…who knows? Now, is it so “contrived to the point of being outright tortuous” to conclude that if police officers, with all of their training and experience, can be killed with their own weapons, then average citizens with minimal to no training and no experience can have the same thing happen to them? Anyway, saying “tell her to get a gun and shooting lessons” is facile. Owning and carrying a gun works for you. It could also work for her, or it could not. It depends on a multitude of factors that only she knows. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/68 "2004-05-28T05:31:14Z")
You’d be surprised how little firearms training most police officers have compared to those who have a personal interest in firearms and self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/69 "2004-05-28T11:44:37Z")
How _wonderful!!_ :rolleyes: :rolleyes: We’re all so busy sounding off about our gun laws views that the poor girl _herself_ has been forgotten!!! How is is she? Is she well? Have they ID-ed the attacker? Have any of the unfeeling partisans on either side of the gun issue developed enough compassion to care? WHOOPS! _SORRY!_ I didn’t mean to interrupt the self-absorbed dickhead fanatics with my insolent suggestion that the welfare of a _ **human being** _ was more important than your motherfucking dimwit argument! Swine. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/70 "2004-05-28T12:21:28Z")
I would imagine the reason she got away from the assailant was because she was able to scream. The assailant was undoubtedly familiar enough with the house to know that other people were in the house. That means: a) he thought someone had called the police; and/or b) he imagined that they MIGHT have a gun. It is for the latter that I support citizens’ rights to own guns. You don’t even have to have one in order for it to be an effective deterrent. That doesn’t mean I advocate your average citizen walking around with a loaded gun at all times. That to me is as alarmist as building a bomb shelter in your basement. However, if it makes her or you feel safer, you won’t get an objection from me. I’m glad the victim was able to get away from the boil on the ass of humanity who attacked her. I hope they find the sick bastard and lock him away for a long time. And I hope she is enveloped in the love and protection of her family and friends. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/71 "2004-05-28T12:29:46Z")
I hope the young woman in question is doing well now and beginning the recovery process. I also hope it will be a comfort to her to know that, if not for her own strength and courage, the situation could have been even worse. Of course, I also hope they catch the guy that did it. Those who said he may have known her or the family might be right, if he was staking out a remote house at that hour of the night. As frightening as it is to think that she was attacked by someone she knew, if that’s the case he may be easier to track down than a total stranger would be. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/72 "2004-05-28T15:19:07Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > For your information, America isn’t some lawless, dangerous place where you stand a good chance of being murdered every other day. > [@MelCthefirst](#): > > If this is the case (and I have been to States a number of times and felt safe most of the time) why would people be advocating carrying a gun all times? Because there’s a middle ground which you’ve failed to consider. It’s common logical fallacy. Most often called the “fallacy of the exlcuded middle,” or a “false dilemma.” > **[False Dilemma Fallacy](https://www.thoughtco.com/false-dilemma-fallacy-250338)** > > The False Dilemma fallacy occurs when an argument offers a false range of choices and requires that you pick one of them. The range is false because there may be other, unstated choices which would only serve to undermine the original argument. If... ---
**Author:** ![carimwc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac8455/32.png) [@carimwc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carimwc)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/73 "2004-05-28T15:31:08Z")
Slight update: They have not caught or id’d the attacker as far as I know. They have a general description but that’s all. She was walking to her car so that means she was on the street. (The area around the house is wooded but neighbors aren’t that far away. It’s suburban NoVa.) It wasn’t a tire iron apparently but a flashlight. Still did the same damage though. The flashlight makes it seem like she interrupted something and the guy attacked so she wouldn’t say anything. She’s doing ok, still very drugged up so she’s not quite yet in the process of dealing with it all. Her mom is a mess but coping. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/74 "2004-05-28T16:34:39Z")
My CHL (Concealed Handgun License) instructor put it this way "if you pull the trigger it’s going to cost you $50,000.00 in settlement money and/or legal fees, if you pull your gun and think about the money then you are in a NO SHOOT ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/75 "2004-05-28T16:49:31Z")
(I am not sure what happened there) Please allow me to continue, NO SHOOT situation", I took the class and began carrying regularly because a LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) told me “remember, we are not in the crime prevention business, we investigate and try to solve crime after it has been committed, I think it’s the responsability of every adult to protect themselves”. I carry a Beretta 96 Brigadier (.40) and a spare magazine (all Cor-Bons) with me ALWAYS, it’s my “security blanket”, I spend a lot of time at the range working on “muscle memory” (if your body knows what to do, your mind can be on something else), it’s not a “magic wand” but it makes me feel better. Now for the standard “canned” responses: You may find me dead in a ditch one day but I will be surrounded by a pile of hot brass. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. To get back on topic, the guy who did this is a fucking monster and should not be on the streets sadly he will probably not be caught, I wish a complete recovery for your friend. Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/76 "2004-05-28T16:55:37Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > No one can be 100% safe at all times. Even if you were sitting quietly at home, behind your barred windows and locked doors, with two killer pit bulls at your beck and call and an automatic weapon within arm’s reach, a passing jet plane could drop an engine and have it land smack-dab on your head, killing you instantly. Straaaaaaaaaaw man. Straaaaaaaaaw man. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/77 "2004-05-28T17:00:01Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > WHOOPS! _SORRY!_ I didn’t mean to interrupt the self-absorbed dickhead fanatics with my insolent suggestion that the welfare of a _ **human being** _ was more important than your motherfucking dimwit argument! > > Swine. :mad: Bosda, Well-meaning, caring people offered advice in the interest of preventing a future occurrence of this _to her_ and other well-meaning, caring people thought the advice might not be such a great idea _for her_. Reasons, cites, rebuttals, and tangents ensued. The victim’s welfare and the welfare of others are at the center of it all. That’s my POV, anyway. Just because the thread title and OP touch the heart of a sensitive issue (personal safety) doesn’t mean that everybody engaging in the discussion of a question _posed by the OP_ are unfeeling self-absorbed dickhead partisan motherfucking dimwits. Just because people address these issues and post things other than brief sympathies doesn’t mean they lack compassion for the victim. Give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/78 "2004-05-28T18:15:13Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > How _wonderful!!_ :rolleyes: :rolleyes: > > We’re all so busy sounding off about our gun laws views that the poor girl _herself_ has been forgotten!!! > > How is is she? Is she well? Have they ID-ed the attacker? > > Have any of the unfeeling partisans on either side of the gun issue developed enough compassion to care? > > WHOOPS! _SORRY!_ I didn’t mean to interrupt the self-absorbed dickhead fanatics with my insolent suggestion that the welfare of a _ **human being** _ was more important than your motherfucking dimwit argument! > > Swine. :mad: Let’s pretend she got in an auto accident. She was ejected from the vehicle and suffered significant physical injuries. We also learn she was not wearing a seatbelt. If this were the case, I’m confident the discussion would focus on the fact she was not wearing a seatbelt. While we would certainly say she was a victim and feel some sorry for her, we would _also_ point out that she _ **chose** _ to forgo some protection by not wearing a seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/79 "2004-05-28T18:21:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Let’s pretend she got in an auto accident. She was ejected from the vehicle and suffered significant physical injuries. We also learn she was not wearing a seatbelt. > > If this were the case, I’m confident the discussion would focus on the fact she was not wearing a seatbelt. While we would certainly say she was a victim and feel some sorry for her, we would _also_ point out that she _ **chose** _ to forgo some protection by not wearing a seatbelt. :dubious: :dubious: :dubious: That’s a false analogy. Try— People dashed over to the scene of the wreck, ignored the victim, never asked if she was hurt, & then started arguing about whether seatbelts would keep you from escaping if the car landed in water. Now that’s a good analogy! ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235/80 "2004-05-28T18:55:48Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > That’s a false analogy. Mmm, I’d say it’s a very good analogy. If I heard on the news that someone got thrown from a vehicle _and_ was not wearing a seatbelt, I would think, “Gee, why the hell weren’t they wearing a seatbelt?” I suspect _ **most** _ people would be thinking this. And justifiably so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-not-safe-in-around-your-house-where-the-fuck-are-you-safe/247235.md?page=5)