# If you're on this call, you are part of the unlucky group that is being laid off **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 6, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572 "2021-12-06T14:33:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/1 "2021-12-06T14:33:51Z")
The Mortgage company Better dot com decided to lay off 9% of its workforce just before the holidays via a Zoom call. That’s special. > [@](#): > > [Better.com](http://Better.com) CEO Vishal Garg announced the mortgage company is laying off about 9% of its workforce on a Zoom webinar Wednesday abruptly informing the more than 900 employees on the call they were being terminated just before the holidays. > > “If you’re on this call, you are part of the unlucky group that is being laid off,” Garg said on the call, a recording of which was viewed by CNN Business. “Your employment here is terminated effective immediately.” > > He then said employees could expect an email from HR detailing benefits and severance. [https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/business/better-ceo-fires-employees/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/business/better-ceo-fires-employees/index.html) More fun stuff from that article: > [@](#): > > Garg has been involved in controversy before, as evidenced by an [email he sent to staff](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjeans/2020/11/20/mortgages-fraud-claims-and-dumb-dolphins-a-tangled-past-haunts-bettercom-ceo-vishal-garg/?sh=12a22d7e10f4) that was obtained by Forbes. > > “You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS… SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME,” he wrote. > > The Daily Beast reported in August that one of Garg’s most “loyal lieutenants” received [massive perks](https://www.thedailybeast.com/bettercom-ceo-vishal-garg-threatened-to-burn-his-business-partner-alive-now-hes-a-billionaire), such as millions of dollars worth of stock options that could be vested immediately, not comparable to other employees. That person was later placed on administrative leave for bullying. ---
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/2 "2021-12-06T14:40:32Z")
Glassdoor will be busy today! What the hell does “dumb dolphins” even mean? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/3 "2021-12-06T14:45:55Z")
And after all the bad press blows over, there could be some openings there! . Hmm, I do find getting fired in person wastes a lot of time, so I’m okay with that… and abusive emails from the CEO? Comedy gold. Sending my resume now… maybe I’ll update it with examples of my “Sniveling cowardice” and “Plotting revenge on boss’s enemies and other dumb dolphins”. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/4 "2021-12-06T14:56:36Z")
> [@tricoteuse](#): > > What the hell does “dumb dolphins” even mean? I don’t know, but the Pathetic Sharks have a long and illustrious history in _Viz_. [http://viz.co.uk/category/pathetic-sharks/](http://viz.co.uk/category/pathetic-sharks/) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/5 "2021-12-06T15:31:06Z")
This reminds me of a very old joke: > …the story—I’m going to shorten this up a lot—where the captain called the lieutenant in and said, ‘Do you have a Jones in the company?’ He replied, ‘Yes, sir.’ The captain said, ‘Well, his mother died. Let him know very gently.’ So the lieutenant called the sergeant in and said, ‘Do you have a Jones? Jones lost his mother. Call the company together, and break it to Jones very gently that he lost his mother.’ So the sergeant called them all together and said, ‘All those with mothers, take one step forward.’ And then he said, ‘Not so fast, Jones. Not so fast.’ There are very few ‘right’ ways to let somebody go, but there are an infinite number of wrong ways. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/6 "2021-12-06T15:41:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME, That is the guy I want to work for. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/7 "2021-12-06T17:20:25Z")
I’ll play devil’s advocate here and applaud this method of laying off hundreds of workers. Rip off the bandaid and get it done. Do your managers really need to be in the middle, holding hundreds of “exit interviews”, letting the 90% of staff who remain spend the day wondering who’s next? It isn’t like the managers were the driving force behind the layoffs, they’re just the suckers who are getting roped into the single worst task managers face in their careers. These one on one meetings don’t even really help the laid off worker, it’s just 900 “surprise! you’re out of a job!” meetings, at the end of the day, what really matters is that you need to look for new employment, not whether or not the firing was sufficiently personal. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/8 "2021-12-06T17:34:32Z")
> **[Dilbert Comic Strip on August 11, 1994](https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-08-11)** > > "This will be a tough year for the company." > "It will take a special kind of team to get by." > "Go team!" > "Team! Team!" > "Yes!" > "Specifically, it will take a much smaller team." ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/9 "2021-12-06T17:46:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’ll play devil’s advocate here and applaud this method of laying off hundreds of workers. I’m kind of with you here, in theory. The guy who made the decision should inform the staff, and I’d actually prefer getting the news along with 899 other people versus a one-on-one. But this CEO is a total prick. To whit: _“This is the second time in my career I’m doing this and I do not want to do this. The last time I did it, I cried.”_ So first, he makes it about him instead of the people actually being laid off. And last time he cried, but not this time? I guess he’s not that sorry about firing this batch of dumb slow dolphins. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/10 "2021-12-06T18:44:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’ll play devil’s advocate here and applaud this method of laying off hundreds of workers. Rip off the bandaid and get it done. I’ll play devil’s advocate a different way; if 9% of your workforce finds it acceptable to only work 2 hrs a day, & “miss calls & show up late to customer [meetings](https://nypost.com/2021/12/06/better-com-ceo-fires-900-employees-on-zoom-call/)” was the wrong person let go on that call? I’m not real big on buying into a company’s culture but it sounds like it didn’t matter for a long time if people didn’t do much work & that’s something that should come down from above well before you axe 9% of your workforce over a zoom call. How many were only working 4 hrs a day but didn’t get canned? > [@Riemann](#): > > > [@tricoteuse](#): > > > > What the hell does “dumb dolphins” even mean? > > I don’t know, but the Pathetic Sharks have a long and illustrious history in _Viz_. Dumb Dolphins vs. Pathetic Sharks; wasn’t that the Story of the aquatic gangs on the West Side of the ocean??? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/11 "2021-12-06T19:21:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’ll play devil’s advocate here and applaud this method of laying off hundreds of workers. Rip off the bandaid and get it done. As horrible as it is to let people go, the correct way is absolutely to say “You’re being let go today. HR will now tell you about your severance package.” CEO Guy isn’t exactly Mr. Charisma but there is no great way to deliver this news except to just state facts. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/12 "2021-12-06T21:43:55Z")
The guy’s clearly an asshole based on other comments he’s made, but I agree that this isn’t the worst way to inform people of layoffs. I’ve seen the “you’ll go into a room with HR or a manager and learn your fate” approach, which is horrible because it has the aura of the guillotine, plus it takes a long while. I’ve also seen the “managers will inform their teams, after they themselves have been informed”, and have seen managers having to tell people they’re laid off shortly after being laid off themselves. Or, alternately, it leaking when they gave managers time to absorb the news. I’ve seen the “you’ll get an email at 3PM” approach. I’ve seen the “you’re all laid off and have to reapply for your jobs” approach. After all that, a surprise call with news to a group isn’t pleasant at all, but it’s not horrible given many of the alternatives. ETA: NBC says the call was “abruptly scheduled”, I do wonder about the people who weren’t available. Probably lots of them if they’re only working 2 hours/day. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/13 "2021-12-06T22:52:03Z")
I agree with the “it’s not the worst way to find out”, because I’ve seen worse. One time, I was laid off via the mechanism of the company having gone through and put notes on our chairs sometime before work started. Came in, found a note saying to pack my crap and get out, as I’d been laid off. Another bad one (I wasn’t laid off, but I watched this go down) was when the company I worked for was going to eliminate a business unit, and was trying to start positioning themselves and switching stuff up before the announcement, but got caught and called out by their workers and had to announce it before they were ready. Several months before they were planning on announcing it. IIRC, they were called out so hard, they ended up offering severance, etc… which as I understand it wasn’t in the original plan, but in order to keep anyone around they had to sweeten the pot. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/14 "2021-12-07T00:34:39Z")
I saw an article about this company and it stated that Forbes called it a unicorn. Does anyone know what that means? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/15 "2021-12-07T00:47:32Z")
According to Investopedia: > [@](#): > > “Unicorn” is a term used in the venture capital industry to describe a privately held startup company with a value of over $1 billion. > **[Unicorn: What It Means in Investing, With Examples](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unicorn.asp)** > > A unicorn in business refers to a startup company with a value of over $1 billion. Read about top unicorn companies and how to invest in unicorns. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/16 "2021-12-07T02:59:23Z")
I’m sorry to hear it and feel bad for the employees. I did a mortgage refinance with [better.com](http://better.com) this summer, and they had excellent rates as well as an easy-to-navigate website and efficient customer service. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/17 "2021-12-07T03:12:00Z")
No offense, but I had to check your account details. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/18 "2021-12-07T03:34:31Z")
I once worked with a woman who said one of her previous employers had a fire drill (a literal one, not metaphorical) and then said, “If your badge lets you back into the building, you still have a job. If not, you’re let go. HR will box up your things and they will be available for pickup later.” StG ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/19 "2021-12-07T04:46:29Z")
Sounds like there’s is a contest for psychotic employer. What is wrong with people? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572/20 "2021-12-07T06:09:57Z")
Re: managers having to tell people on their team they’ve been laid off after getting the axe themselves…. I am afraid that if I was in that situation I would say “Very sorry, but as I don’t work here anymore, you’ll have to do the dirty work yourself. “ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-on-this-call-you-are-part-of-the-unlucky-group-that-is-being-laid-off/955572.md?page=2)