# If youre planning to purchase a Mac, please support your local dealer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035 "2005-03-17T19:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/1 "2005-03-17T19:26:09Z")
I work at a local Apple reseller, and i’m asking anyone here who’s thinking of purchasing a Mac to support their local independent Mac dealer, _NOT_ an Apple store or the Apple online store, heck, you don’t have to purchase your Mac from _my_ store, just DON’T purchase it direct from Apple… Why, you ask? well, let me tell you Apple Corporate has been behaving very evilly towards the independent dealer, very subtly trying to erode the independent shop’s client base and competing directly against the little guy they’re doing things like… stocking the Apple Stores and Apple Online first, and cutting back on the merchandise shipped to the dealers, we _still_ don’t have any iPod Shuffles to sell, yet circuit city, best buy, the Apple store, and the online store have them, we’re an Apple _specialist_, with certified techs and sales staff that love the platform, yet we’re treated lower than the big box stores who actively hate Apple and try to steer people away from the Mac cutting back on the promised machines to the independent dealers (we ordered 50 Shuffles and have recieved _none_) actively pursuing the local shop’s customers and undercutting our prices (which, incidentally, are set by Apple anyway), if they purchase from Apple directly, and not the dealer setting “unachievable” accesory sales (displays, AppleCare, software) quotas that you have to hit in order to keep your specialist ranking (they expect $300+ in accessory sales with each CPU) penalizing service if we order more than 2 parts on a repair, i can understand a penalty for 3 parts, to prevent “shotgun” repairs, but there are times when a machine legitimately has 2 bad parts (a G4 tower with a bad vidcard and hard drive for example, or a G5 DP with 2 bad processors) basically, steve jobs wants to sabotage the independent dealer channel thru unfair play and anticompetitive behavior (much like microsoft), i have no problem with Apple selling their own products in their own stores, heck, they make the product, they have every riht to sell it themselves, but at least play fair, treat your independent dealers as equals, don’t favor your own internal sales remember back in the “dark times” of the Scully/Amelio/Gasse’ days, where Apple was floundering and in trouble? we, the independent dealers stuck by Apple and never lost faith, if it wasn’t for the independent dealer, Apple might not have survived, or would still be in a drastically weakened state, the little guy helped saved Apple, and how are we being repaid? by being screwed by steve jobs and Apple Corporate the Evil Apple started almost a year after jobs returned to the company, don’t let Evil Steve win, please support your local shop, we’re there for you, all we ask is you support us don’t get me wrong, i still love the Mac, i just hate apple corporate, they’re just too frakkin’ evil ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/2 "2005-03-17T19:30:50Z")
Aww man, why’d you have to post this the day _after_ I bought my first Mac (a higher-end mini) at the local Apple store? That sucks that a company that’s marketed as being hip and cool and people-friendly is resorting to underhanded tactics to manipulate their vendor base. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/3 "2005-03-17T19:46:17Z")
Well, you could always return it and purchase one from a local shop 😉 see that’s the thing, to the average consumer, Apple’s still seen as a happy-happy-joy-joy freindly kind of company, but ask _any_ independent vendor and you’ll get a response similar to mine, apple corporate wants the only place to purchase a Mac is at an “official” apple store, be it a brick-and-mortar, or the online presence they want the vendor channel gone, they won’t officially come out and say it, for fear of lawsuits and being called up for anticompetitive tactics, but their actions speak much louder than their words… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/4 "2005-03-17T19:50:35Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > penalizing service if we order more than 2 parts on a repair, i can understand a penalty for 3 parts, to prevent “shotgun” repairs, but there are times when a machine legitimately has 2 bad parts (a G4 tower with a bad vidcard and hard drive for example, or a G5 DP with 2 bad processors) To be fair, they started this crackdown five years ago, back when I could have your name. What I hated even more was when I had to talk to the Service Source snobs. They would treat me like I didn’t have a clue what was broken. They would always ask me (In the sys 9 days) if I had run Apple Hardware test. I felt like reaching through the phone a strangling them, for that was a worthless step for anyone with knowledge of the hardware. But I’ve been where you are, so I certainly know where you’re coming from. Don’t worry. I always feed the small dogs and locals when I can. And I tend to buy at least 20 at a time. I’ve found that when spending 100k on computers a year, it’s nice to have a the same salesperson to talk to everytime I call. It alway’s bummed me out that your place wouldn’t accept corporate accounts. Have they started that yet? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/5 "2005-03-17T19:57:20Z")
Well, I bought my Mini through Apple’s online store, but I intend to have upgrades or work done to it through a local independent Apple dealer. And I have patronized local Apple dealers in the past. I’ve always had really good experiences with them. Great people—really welcoming and friendly to an Apple “newbie.” ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/6 "2005-03-17T23:22:00Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > stocking the Apple Stores and Apple Online first, and cutting back on the merchandise shipped to the dealers, we _still_ don’t have any iPod Shuffles to sell, yet circuit city, best buy, the Apple store, and the online store have them, we’re an Apple _specialist_, with certified techs and sales staff that love the platform, yet we’re treated lower than the big box stores who actively hate Apple and try to steer people away from the Mac > > cutting back on the promised machines to the independent dealers (we ordered 50 Shuffles and have recieved _none_) OK, I’m with you on almost all of that. But, um…buy from you because you don’t have something? How can we patronize a store that doesn’t have any of what we want, regardless of whose fault that is? Or can you order stuff that you haven’t received if somebody wants to buy it from you instead of from Best Buy? ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/7 "2005-03-18T02:07:26Z")
I would, if the closest one was less than a 5 hour drive from here (apparently past the end of the earth as we know it). ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/8 "2005-03-18T02:38:14Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > OK, I’m with you on almost all of that. But, um…buy from you because you don’t have something? How can we patronize a store that doesn’t have any of what we want, regardless of whose fault that is? Or can you order stuff that you haven’t received if somebody wants to buy it from you instead of from Best Buy? yes, any independent shop can order product from Apple if a customer requests it, as far as the other issue goes, i understand that a consumer wants their product (lets say a Mac Mini) _now_, i don’t fault them for going to a vendor that has them if the local shop doesn’t, but if both the local shop and the big-box store has them, then purchase it from your local vendor, _instead_ of the apple store/big box retailer, Apple controls the pricing on product, so there should be no price difference besides, where would you rather go for service and support, a big boxer who sees you as a wallet with legs, hates Macs, and can’t tell an ADB port from an AGP port, or a retailer who lives and breathes the Mac? ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/9 "2005-03-18T02:41:17Z")
Hmmm… so who is more evil? Gates or Jobs? 🙂 (speaking of, **MacTech** , I need to buy a Mac soon so that I can become more familiar with the OS… what version of the OS would you say is most representative of the line? IOW, what would you recommend for me, being only slightly familiar with Macs in general, to learn the ins and outs of the platform as a tech? Thanks in advance, and if you don’t wanna hijack the thread, would you mind sending me an email? I’d appreciate your advice…) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/10 "2005-03-18T03:30:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Apple Corporate has been behaving very evilly towards the independent dealer, very subtly trying to erode the independent shop’s client base and competing directly against the little guy Old Saying: Never compete with your customers. Apple has been screwing people over for years, in ways that would make Microsoft blanch (albeit not for long). They have a bad history of messing with the very people and companies keeping their own sales going, too. They demolished the mac cloners way back when. This bit them in the butt when too many of the software people decided mac wasn’t worth the cost and stopped making software for it. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/11 "2005-03-18T03:54:07Z")
Some of the local dealers have been banded together to sue Apple by filing a [class action](http://www.tellonapple.org/) lawsuit. After looking through that website, I wonder how long the Apple independant dealers are going to stay in business. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/12 "2005-03-18T03:55:13Z")
Eh, when Mr. S and I went out to buy our first computer in 1993, all we knew was that we probably wanted a Mac. So we went to the closest Mac dealer (yes, a locally owned outfit) and stood around for about 15 minutes in a showroom with only a few computers and no prices or literature to be seen, while one person talked on the phone, a few people sat at computers playing games, others walked back and forth past us, and everyone totally ignored us. So we went to American and bought a complete PC system. They got our $4,000, not the Mac store. Perhaps things have changed at that store since then, but that one experience influenced most of the rest of our computer purchases. Mr. S eventually bought a Performa (also from American, I believe), and except for a few secondhand Mac purchases, all our other computers have been PCs. I’m sure the OP gives better service than this – maybe we should send him over there to shake them up? ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/13 "2005-03-18T04:24:21Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Hmmm… so who is more evil? Gates or Jobs? 🙂 never thought i’d hear myself say this, but they’re _BOTH_ equally evil (gates is just slightly more evil though, jobs’s “Reality distortion field” gives him the ability to make people think “maybe he’s not so bad after all” when in fact, he _is_ > [@](#): > > (speaking of, **MacTech** , I need to buy a Mac soon so that I can become more familiar with the OS… what version of the OS would you say is most representative of the line? IOW, what would you recommend for me, being only slightly familiar with Macs in general, to learn the ins and outs of the platform as a tech? Thanks in advance, and if you don’t wanna hijack the thread, would you mind sending me an email? I’d appreciate your advice…) 🙂 Macs are currently running OS X Panther (10.3.8), and the beauty of the Mac as a system is that they all, for the most part, run absolutely identically, if you learn on an iBook or Mac Mini, you’ll feel just as comfortable on a top-line 2.5GHz liquid-cooled G5 Dualie Apple has a set of guidelines for programs (the Human Interface Guide) that _all_ Mac programs must adhere to, wheter they’re written by Apple, or a third party vendor, aside from app-specific functions (contained in their own menu options), the menu commands will be the same, you learn on one version of the Mac OS, you’ll pretty much learn how to run the other versions you’ll be surprised how quickly you’ll adapt, after all, the Mac OS and windows do share a _ahem_ common heritage _ahem_ 😉 (the Xerox Star) ---
**Author:** ![MizQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@MizQuirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizQuirk)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/14 "2005-03-18T04:48:32Z")
Okay, I’m looking for a local vendor in the north Dallas area. Do I have to go to the old-fashioned phone book? I’m finding nothing in computer search that even asks my zip code. I’ll probably be buying before long, but maybe I’m silly to think I won’t have the usual problems with a Mac that I’ve had with PCs. Very frustrating because I’m so computer illiterate and inept. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/15 "2005-03-18T04:57:03Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > So we went to the closest Mac dealer (yes, a locally owned outfit) and stood around for about 15 minutes in a showroom with only a few computers and no prices or literature to be seen, while one person talked on the phone, a few people sat at computers playing games, others walked back and forth past us, and everyone totally ignored us. That sounds like a sucky store, definitely. I remember an audio/stereo store like that—they literally would turn their back and pretend you didn’t exist, rather than wait on you. Luckily they went out of business a while back. Gee, I wonder why. I have had good experiences with local Mac dealers. When I decided to get my first Mac (I got a used PowerMac 6100/60 off of eBay in late 1999) it needed the PRAM battery replaced, and it needed a video adapter cable thingie ( **MacTech** will know what I am talking about). I went to one local Mac dealer for the battery, and they couldn’t have been more attentive or helpful. Answered all sorts of questions, were really welcoming, etc. For whatever reason (I can’t remember why) I got the adapter cable at another local Mac place. I was _determined_ to get the cable that day (I had a lot of false starts getting this old Mac set up). I can’t remember why I went to this one shop, but anyway, when I got there, they were closed—something I had not anticipated. Long story short, even though they were technically “closed,” they happened to be in the shop so they opened it up, just for me, and got me the part I needed. They also were very friendly and helpful, answered a lot of questions, and took extra time with me. I was really impressed with both experiences, and also with my experiences with fellow Macheads online. They seem to be (in general) a friendly, supportive bunch. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/16 "2005-03-18T05:14:27Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > don’t get me wrong, i still love the Mac, i just hate apple corporate, they’re just too frakkin’ evil They’re also getting something of a bad name in the UK, where they recently won a case awarding them control of the domain [itunes.co.uk](http://itunes.co.uk). They took this domain name from the guy who registered it _four years_ before Apple launched its UK iTunes service. > [@](#): > > With the iTunes decision, a smaller company holding prior rights on a domain (in this case CyberBritain), has for a second time lost out to a larger company. [iTunes.co.uk](http://iTunes.co.uk) was registered in November 2000, and redirected to a music search engine on CyberBritain. Apple only launched its UK service in June last year - four years later. Nevertheless Nominet expert Milne found that: “On the balance of probabilities, I find that the Domain Name, in the hands of the Respondent, is an Abusive Registration on the grounds of its use in a manner taking unfair advantage of, and being unfairly detrimental to, the Rights of the Complainant.” As [this article](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/15/itunes_domain_case/) points out: > [@](#): > > The logic that will no doubt be strenuously put forward by intellectual property lawyers is that if someone with a similar domain to a (subsequent) well-known service then uses the knock-on effect to benefit financially, then they are guilty of using that registration abusively, and the domain should be handed over. > > This is a dangerous logic however. If a company builds, say, a pedestrian shopping centre and subsequently causes the price of commercial properties in that area to rocket, that company is not entitled to take over those properties just because they have benefitted. Admittedly, the full text of the decision has not yet been released, and Britain’s domain-name overseer has urged people to wait until it is before drawing firm conclusions, but this certainly smacks of corporate bullying. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/17 "2005-03-18T05:16:41Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > I work at a local Apple reseller, and i’m asking anyone here who’s thinking of purchasing a Mac to support their local independent Mac dealer, _NOT_ an Apple store or the Apple online store, heck, you don’t have to purchase your Mac from _my_ store, just DON’T purchase it direct from Apple… Do me a favor and tell me what the local reseller is going to do for me that Apple direct won’t. Don’t get me wrong; I’d much rather support a local retailer…but you list a bunch of negatives (less availability of new hardware, more restrictive service, et cetera). From the standpoint of the customer, it sounds like a good idea to go to the Apple Store rather than a reseller. So, what is the reseller going to do for me? Better service? Some kind of deal on additional hardware/maintainence/software? I think Jobs is a plick, and have done so ever since his days of the Apple II/Lisa/Machintosh debacle (not to mention his out of control temper tantrums), but I have to get something for my dime, 'specially if I have to pay more or wait longer. (For that matter, I wish someone else would build hardware as well-designed as Apple but for a less exorbitant price. I’m not wedded to the PowerPC architecture by any means, but they are clearly the best built commerical laptops available.) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/18 "2005-03-18T05:34:31Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > the beauty of the Mac as a system is that they all, for the most part, run absolutely identically, if you learn on an iBook or Mac Mini, you’ll feel just as comfortable on a top-line 2.5GHz liquid-cooled G5 Dualie Sweet! Thanks! I was hoping I could just buy a cheapie used Mac to learn on… sounds like I can! Excellent. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/19 "2005-03-18T12:22:54Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Sweet! Thanks! I was hoping I could just buy a cheapie used Mac to learn on… sounds like I can! Excellent. > 🆒 From a reliability standpoint, the best used Macs to learn on would be the G4 towers, they have all the modern ports of the current Macs (FireWire, USB) and can support 10.4 Tiger (due out later this year), for portables, the G4 Titaniums are good reliable machines, as are the original 500MHz G3 iBooks (the Dual USB models), and the iBook G4’s, the iMac G4 flat-panel is reliable as well, machines to avoid… CRT based G3 iMacs (they have a tendency to have the analog board go bad, losing the monitor) Dual USB iBooks 600MHz and up (there’s a known flaw in the video circuitry on the logic board, and Apple’s extended warranty on that issue expires today, and the reed switch wiring that controls the backlighting tubes has a tendency to fray and short out) PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” and “Lombard” models, good machines, but are on Apple’s obsolete list, no parts available anymore, the “Pismo” is due to go on the obsolete list very soon… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035/20 "2005-03-18T16:19:05Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > From a reliability standpoint, the best used Macs to learn on would be the G4 towers, they have all the modern ports of the current Macs (FireWire, USB) and can support 10.4 Tiger ( **due out later this year** ), for portables, the G4 Titaniums are good reliable machines, as are the original 500MHz G3 iBooks (the Dual USB models), and the iBook G4’s, the iMac G4 flat-panel is reliable as well, Ah! Permit me to tap your brain for a minute; do you have any word on when Tiger is to be released (other than “sometime in the first half of 2005”?) I am planning to buy a G4 Powerbook but the Apple schnooks can’t tell me when X.4 is going to be out or if Apple will offer it free to peope who’ve purchased a machine in the past few months, as they did with X.3. I may just end up running Darwin anyway, but I’d like to have the FreeBSD 5.0-based system for compatibility reasons and if I’m paying the Apple premium for the hardware I’d just as soon get the most current OS with it. As for my earlier question, what can I expect from a reseller that I’m not going to get from the Apple Store. (This is a serious question, not a jibe as resellers. I really would rather support a local dealer.) Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-planning-to-purchase-a-mac-please-support-your-local-dealer/295035.md?page=2)