# If you're white and all you can think about is how good blacks have it, you're an idiot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048 "2009-07-06T04:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/241 "2009-07-13T21:55:57Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Monstro** , you are much more impulsive in the way you handle arguments and anger than I have ever dreamed. There is a therapy would be very helpful to you, I think. It focuses on problems as they arise in your life today. It doesn’t focus so much on what may have gone wrong in the past. It’s about learning what’s fair for you and fair for others. It’s called Cogitive Behavior Therapy. I think that you might find it helpful. A lot of people at Straight Dope have. Huh? Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is pretty much all about what you’ve done in the past. That’s the point of it - it’s about recognising your own reactions to things that have already occurred. _Then_ you can apply what you’ve learned to your reactions today. Without looking at the past and your past self, i’m not entirely sure how it would work. You’d have to judge things solely as they are at the time, which the therapy presupposes may well be a faulty judgement. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/242 "2009-07-13T22:14:38Z")
I wish I could now say “My name is Bennet and I ain’t in it!” (Thanks **Nzinga**.) But I guess it’s too late for all that. Listen, **Zoe**. I’m the type of person who doesn’t hold a grudge against most internet people. There are a few posters who have ENEMY written across their foreheads when I encounter them, but you aren’t one of them. However, I don’t appreciate your behavior in this thread. Athough I was too much of a coward to respond to your password-questioning PM, I didn’t appreciate that either. The way I see it, I shouldn’t have to hold my tongue when I see wrongdoing, and in **Fenris’s** thread, there was plenty for my tongue to cluck over. Since then, I have been leery of you. Even though you have been very very nice to me in the past, I sometimes find you to be a scary, “too hot” presence. How do I know that one day you aren’t going to question my credentials and turn me out as some kind of fraud? That’s behavior I wouldn’t tolerate in real life, so why should I tolerate it in a play-play universe? We must take responsibility for our actions, even when our brains are suffering. That’s why I usually don’t post when I’m feel bad; I know I’m likely to come across as a bizarro **monstro**. I don’t know what all you’re suffering from–my own diagnosis is a mixed bag now, so we may not be as aligned as you think–but surely you have some self-awareness. One thing I’ve learned from being on the Dope is that most posters don’t care enough to hate you, even when they’re battling tooth and nail with you. There is no cabal to take you down. Other than providing some clarification to **RubyStreak** about the history between us via PM, I haven’t been whispering and snickering behind your back with other posters. I most certainly don’t hate you or even dislike you, but as I said, I’m leery of you. But perhaps that’s more my fault than yours, 'cuz I tend to be leery of most melodramatic, emotional, grudge-bearing people. You bear grudges, **Zoe**. Can you at least acknowledge that? I don’t particularly care that our friendship is broken. I don’t feel entitled to friends, having them isn’t at the top of my priority list, and my personal connections to most people are weak anyway. We are total opposites in that respect, which I find kind of humorous for some reason. You deserve someone who can tolerate the histrionics and the hurt feelings–I’m not that person and I never should have let you think otherwise. Remember what I said in a past thread about me being heartless and cold. Well, now you know why I said that about myself. I’m a nice person, yes, but I Just Don’t Care. Now you know. That’s my introspective glurg for the day. I hope it inspires you to look at the “woman in the mirror” and make that change. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/243 "2009-07-13T22:21:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Wait. I thought I was the leader of the anti-Zoe cabal? > > Christ, you miss a few days and your ass gets deposed. Yeah, the whole board has been talking about you behind your back for starting this crazy-filled thread. You’re going down, girlie. It’s just a matter of time before we turn you out of this place! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/244 "2009-07-15T09:59:15Z")
**Revenant Threshold** , I defer to you on the CBT. My mistake. > [@](#): > > **Monstro** : The way I see it, I shouldn’t have to hold my tongue when I see wrongdoing, and in Fenris’s thread, there was plenty for my tongue to cluck over. Since then, I have been leery of you. So even though I had never once said anything unkind to you – but you had attacked me in two threads – you then became leery of me!?? Shouldn’t that have been the other way around? **And Rubystreak claims that it was!** She said that I had held a grudge against you for years.\*\* And she says that she got that information from you. Those were YOUR feelings, **Monstro** , not mine. And I don’t hold a grudge in the sense that you mean it. There is a difference in being angry with, disagreeing with, not trusting, disliking, and bearing a grudge against someone. I don’t bear a grudge against anyone. It’s **Rubystreak** that keeps stirring the pot. As for **Fenris** pitting me, do you think we’d ever exchanged two words to each other before? Not that I remember. It could just be my memory. But aren’t you usually pitted by someone who has crossed your path before? > [@](#): > > **Monstro** : That’s behavior I wouldn’t tolerate in real life, so why should I tolerate it in a play-play universe? Well gee, **Monstro** , since I haven’t actually done this to you, I guess you don’t have to blame me just yet. You know? I’m sorry that you see this as a play-play universe or something other than real life. But I guess that is what allows you to think there is not a real person behind these words. I’ll bet you think I disappear when you log off of SDMB. > [@](#): > > **Rubystreak** : Upon reviewing the thread, she seems to think that I somehow induced you to bring up her questioning my credentials. I didn’t review the thread. Care to try that sentence again? **Monstro** , you said that the way you see it, you shouldn’t have to hold your tongue when you see wrongdoing. For that I applaud you. And to a great extent, we have seen and spoken out against much of the same wrongdoing. At the same time, I shouldn’t have to hold my tongue either when I see wrongdoing. I didn’t think that you were fair in your accessment that people in America just treat slavery as if it were a joke and that “no one seems to give a fuck.” You seemed blind to the hundreds of thousands, even millions of people who have tried to make things better and to take some of the sting away. It’s not that the non-blacks have to be thanked or acknowledged constantly. It’s just that at some point, you might stop running all of us into the ground. That too is called racial bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/245 "2009-07-15T10:20:49Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Lama Pocos said that if slaves were paid for their work, their descendants would be in a different situation now. You disagreed, saying that factory workers weren’t able to leave their kids much. I think it’s safe to say, however, the factory workers are able to leave their kids more than slaves left their children, because factory workers do have assets, whereas slaves had none, not even ownership over their own person. If we can agree on that point, then the conversation can reasonably said to be over. Lama Pocos said “significantly different assets” which implies, to me, that the money earned from this labor would have worked its way down to today’s descendants. I think it is highly questionable to assume that money / assets earned 150+ years ago, by laborers, is going to be passed down over all that time and amount to anything significant today. That’s not to say that the situation wouldn’t be different if these were free workers instead of slaves, but that difference has little to do with missing paychecks. ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/246 "2009-07-15T11:21:15Z")
Hey **Rubystreak** here’s a clue: Shut the fuck up! You’re trying to fan the flames between **Zoe** and **Monstro** and it just makes you look stupid and pathetic. They may have issues to work out but they don’t need you butting your idiot head in. Stop it. Stop being an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/247 "2009-07-15T14:32:36Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Shouldn’t that have been the other way around? **And Rubystreak claims that it was!** She said that I had held a grudge against you for years.\*\* And she says that she got that information from you. Those were YOUR feelings, **Monstro** , not mine. You were picking on her in this thread. Others noticed it too. Can’t admit that, though, can you? Or apologize. Or just leave it alone. You just happened to be righteously correcting her, nitpick by nitpick, in a way that seemed to all and sundry like a grudge. The information I got from monstro was WHY you were picking on her. I was wrong about the reasons, and she corrected me. Why do you need this to be repeated? It’s all right here, in the thread. Go over it and see if my version of events isn’t accurate. > [@](#): > > It’s **Rubystreak** that keeps stirring the pot. It was a mistake of me to warn ashman not to get involved. I should have just PM’ed him and not incited your ire. That was definitely my mistake, and believe me, I regret it, because it unleashed The Crazy. However, it irks me how you treat people, and never once consider that it’s wrong. If how you treated monstro in this thread is how you treat a friend… well, I’d say I shudder to think about how you treat an enemy, but I know about that all too well. > [@](#): > > As for **Fenris** pitting me, do you think we’d ever exchanged two words to each other before? Not that I remember. It could just be my memory. But aren’t you usually pitted by someone who has crossed your path before? Your behavior can be offensive to people who are not the recipient of that behavior. Just as you said in your post: “I shouldn’t have to hold my tongue either when I see wrongdoing.” Others, like you, don’t wish to hold their tongue when they see wrongdoing, even if it’s you, Zoe, who is the perpetrator. You want to dish it out, you ought to be able to take it. Fenris was sick of watching you denigrate and belittle people who got on your bad side. There is ample evidence in that thread that you do just that, and were doing it again to monstro. monstro herself concurred that it felt like you were doing that. So why is it some master conspiracy by me? I’m just observing something that is apparent to many others. You never answered for it in Fenris’ thread, and apparently you didn’t learn shit from that Pitting, so here, it comes up again. No surprise. > [@](#): > > I didn’t review the thread. Care to try that sentence again? I reviewed the thread to see what you were talking about, and you were just making stuff up. Paranoid stuff. > [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](#): > > Hey **Rubystreak** here’s a clue: Shut the fuck up! > You’re trying to fan the flames between **Zoe** and **Monstro** and it just makes you look stupid and pathetic. They may have issues to work out but they don’t need you butting your idiot head in. Stop it. Stop being an asshole. Abby\_Emma\_Sasha: go eat some cream cheese and wash it down with bourbon or whatever you’re drinking this morning. You’ll be OK by tomorrow, or at least, this will all be a faint memory. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/248 "2009-07-15T14:34:51Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Lama Pocos said “significantly different assets” which implies, to me, that the money earned from this labor would have worked its way down to today’s descendants. I think it is highly questionable to assume that money / assets earned 150+ years ago, by laborers, is going to be passed down over all that time and amount to anything significant today. > > That’s not to say that the situation wouldn’t be different if these were free workers instead of slaves, but that difference has little to do with missing paychecks. Missing paychecks are merely a concrete way of measuring what was lost. Obviously, it’s much harder to quantify what is lost culturally when a person doesn’t own himself and never has a chance to acquire any assets. It’s not inconceivable to think that, if Africans came here in the same numbers voluntarily, and were paid for their work, that their assets right now, as well as American society in general, would be significantly different. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/249 "2009-07-16T04:33:01Z")
Let’s put an end to the Zoe/monstro/Rubystreak-who-accused-whom-of-being-a-liar-or-whatever-the-hell hijack and return to our regularly scheduled pie fight. If you folks want to continue your argument, feel free to start a thread about it, but this thread is not about **Zoe**. No warnings issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/250 "2009-07-16T15:04:26Z")
Back to the OP by **jsgoddess** : > [@](#): > > If you’re white and all you can think about is how good blacks have it, you’re an idiot > > * * * > > If you: > > Bemoan the fact you can’t call people “nigger” or “nigga” > > Think “The Fighting Whiteys” is the awesomest team name EVER > > Wonder why there can’t be a respected NAAWP > > Want to hang nooses in trees for decorative purposes > > Start sentences with “I’m not racist, but…” > … or otherwise consider yourself to be persecuted, oppressed, or otherwise less lucky than black people as a whole, you’re a complete fucking idiot and you embarrass yourself each time you talk about your terrible, terrible misfortune in being born white. Most of the OP I agree with. I think there are still some WWII Holocaust survivors who were more persecuted and oppressed than black people as a whole and perhaps survivors of the genocide in Bosnia or the killing fields in Cambodia. But blacks had their own killing fields in Rawanda and the horrors are still going on in Darfur. But it’s stupid for most white people to complain about persecution for being white. They may have lost out on a job, but that is _nothing_ in comparison. It doesn’t even scratch the surface. As for the “I’m not a racist, but…” – I think it would serve some blacks well to remember that this sentence from their lips doesn’t usually shake out very well either. Ultimately, I don’t believe in “races.” As much as I enjoy diversity and live in a neighborhood of African-Americans, whites, Kurds, other Muslims, Cambodians, Koreans, Mexicans, and others, I hope that it won’t be too long before we are all part of the melting pot with the cultures changing America a little more. And I will be glad for the time when we stop thinking so much about “my people” except when we mean “fellow human beings.” I don’t really like “us” and “them” thinking even though I know I use it out of convenience some times. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/251 "2009-07-16T15:10:17Z")
There are white people in Cambodia? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/252 "2009-07-16T18:09:31Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Huh? Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is pretty much all about what you’ve done in the past. That’s the point of it - it’s about recognising your own reactions to things that have already occurred. _Then_ you can apply what you’ve learned to your reactions today. Without looking at the past and your past self, i’m not entirely sure how it would work. You’d have to judge things solely as they are at the time, which the therapy presupposes may well be a faulty judgement. It’s possible she meant Rational Emotive Therapy. I dunno why, since the two therapies are nothing alike and don’t even sound the same, but I’ve gotten the two names mixed up before. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/253 "2009-07-17T05:05:50Z")
**Fenris** , No, I wouldn’t confuse RET with CBT. The latter is the larger umbrella term. And as for CBT focusing on the present rather than the past: I really don’t like _Wiki_ as a source, but it does refer to the merger of Cognitive Therapy and Behavior Therapy and mentions that both of them focus on [“the here and now”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy) (I might add that this would be as opposed to psychodynamic therapies which take a long time and are more likely to explore childhood and adolescent traumas and relationships and that which in psychology is called the “ego.”) I haven’t studied psychology since graduate school, so I will yield to any of you who are licensed psychologists or mental patients who have had CBT yourselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048.md?page=12)