# If you're white and all you can think about is how good blacks have it, you're an idiot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048 "2009-07-06T04:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/141 "2009-07-08T14:47:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you think that someone (and if so, who?) should pay reparations to someone (and if so, who?) for US slavery? If so, what form should these payments take (ie, cash or building parks in black neighborhoods or what?)? What thought process has led you to ask this question? Nothing she has written has suggested that she thinks blacks deserve reparations. All she’s done is vented about the dicktitude of people who think it’s cool to honor racist traitors while taking a dismissive attitude towards the history of black folk. I swear, if I have to smell one more white person crapping their pants about some nonexistent reparations to black people, I’m cutting my nose off. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/142 "2009-07-08T15:10:55Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > Yeah, I noticed that too. Great Debates’ front page is lousy with it. There’s the thread that inspired this one, more insipid and disingenuous whining about why black people have a black beauty pageant, “reverse racism”, etc; there’s the reparations thread (translation: “Why can’t you black people be more like my white, non-colonialized ancestors and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps? Discrimination was so 1800s”); there’s the tired old arguments about how blacks are dumber than whites; and there’s my fave, the thread where people pretend they want to understand why a majority of black people come out against gay marriage, when they clearly just want to vent on a convenient scapegoat. > > Props to **you with the face** and **monstro** for fighting the good fight. Just reading some of that shit gets tiresome. Hey, don’t drag my thread into your shit-fight. My thread is a debate over reparations generally, and not about merely about your favourite particular example. If you wish to characterize me as a “White Nationalist” on the basis of that, please go ahead; I will then characterize you as “jumping to conclusions”. Note that everyone’s favourite idiot **Elvis** thinks I started that thread in a nefarious attempt to support Zionism. Which brand of nefarious am I anyway - White Nationalist, or Zionist? Dammit, you people have me confused! ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/143 "2009-07-08T15:21:58Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > We also have a slavery issue even now within the US and throughout the world. What? Where is slavery being practiced in the United States? Is there someplace where the government is enforcing one person’s right to own another in this country? > [@](#): > > As many as twenty-seven _million_ people are currently enslaved in the world. And so many of them are children who are sex slaves. Five and six year old children here in the U.S. _That_ is what makes me angry. Fewer than at any time in history. However, enforcing slavery is no longer the policy of the United States government, and the ability of the United States to right every wrong in the world has recently been tested, and found wanting. > [@](#): > > Apparently, she has no idea that Lee was offered a command in the Union Army first. (Hey, all Confederate leaders were alike.) Apparently, she is more familiar with General Lee than you are. All Confederate leaders were not alike. Not all of them kidnapped freed blacks in Maryland and Pennsylvania and sent them to Virginia to be slaves. Lee did. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/144 "2009-07-08T15:37:05Z")
Maybe there’s a point I’m missing here, but is the fact that he was offered a Union command and chose a Confederate command something that’s supposed to make me like him _better_? Because, um… no. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/145 "2009-07-08T15:52:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Hey, don’t drag my thread into your shit-fight. My thread is a debate over reparations generally, and not about merely about your favourite particular example. > > If you wish to characterize me as a “White Nationalist” on the basis of that, please go ahead; I will then characterize you as “jumping to conclusions”. Untwist your panties, **Malthus**. I’m not calling you a white nationalist, I’m just saying I’m sick of the same tired old arguments against the non-issue of reparations. Ironically, I saw another pit thread here (the “Serder Argic” one), and was thinking that **FinnAgain** does seem awfully aggressive and easy to characterize his opponents as anti-semitic, but I think I can see where he’s coming from. When you see the same old tired shit you begin to recognize the markers, and you get to the point when you’re just not willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/146 "2009-07-08T15:56:29Z")
Maybe any day now we’ll see statues of McVeigh. He tried to fight the federal govt to advance his beliefs as well. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/147 "2009-07-08T16:03:03Z")
[QUOTE=Ichini Sanshigo] Ironically, I saw another pit thread here (the “Serder Argic” one), and was thinking that FinnAgain does seem awfully aggressive and easy to characterize his opponents as anti-semitic, but I think I can see where he’s coming from. When you see the same old tired shit you begin to recognize the markers, and you get to the point when you’re just not willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. [/QUOTE] Pretty much spot on. You get to the point where you have said something so many times to the same person that you know they aren’t listening. I’ve seen the progression in Finn over the last few years on this topic. If you look back at some early threads he was in on the Israel/Palestine subject you will see he goes to excruciating depth in his posts, posting and a fairly calm and reasoned manner (for him ;)) all sorts of historical and demographics facts. Really a wealth of knowledge on the subject (I thought I knew a lot, but learned a ton from him on this subject)…and, it’s like pearls to swine in a lot of cases, as the same numb skulls and mullet heads keep bring up the same tired, stupid arguments. Over and over again. Ad nauseum. After a while you just automatically dismiss these folks as unreachable, and when they continue to drop their steaming load into the thread you go into snark mode. Sort of like the damn 9/11 CT theories, or the guys who are always coming in with New! Stunning! data concerning how evolution has been overturned, or how ID is the latest thing evah! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/148 "2009-07-08T16:11:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What thought process has led you to ask this question? Nothing she has written has suggested that she thinks blacks deserve reparations. All she’s done is vented about the dicktitude of people who think it’s cool to honor racist traitors while taking a dismissive attitude towards the history of black folk. > > I swear, if I have to smell one more white person crapping their pants about some nonexistent reparations to black people, I’m cutting my nose off. :rolleyes: I asked to find out what her views are. She said that she believs the US has already promised to pay reparations, so I think it’s reasonable to ask whether she thinks the US should do so. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/149 "2009-07-08T16:24:09Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > (translation: “Why can’t you black people be more like my white, non-colonialized ancestors and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps? Discrimination was so 1800s”); Perhaps, in the interest of historical accuracy and all, you’d like to point out where these “non-colonialized” ancestors came from? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/150 "2009-07-08T16:25:53Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > Untwist your panties, **Malthus**. I’m not calling you a white nationalist, I’m just saying I’m sick of the same tired old arguments against the non-issue of reparations. > > Ironically, I saw another pit thread here (the “Serder Argic” one), and was thinking that **FinnAgain** does seem awfully aggressive and easy to characterize his opponents as anti-semitic, but I think I can see where he’s coming from. When you see the same old tired shit you begin to recognize the markers, and you get to the point when you’re just not willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. It may be a “non-issue” when it comes to Black slavery, but it is an issue very much alive in other historical contexts. It was some of the participants in this here thread that got to arguing about _this particular_ “non-issue” in the thread I started. If they are sick of the “tired old shit”, then the remedy surely lies in their own hands. To reiterate: you (and it seems they) are jumping to conclusions. First you jump to the conclusion that a thread about reparations for historic grievance is all about the particular grievance of interest to you, and then you jump to the conclusion that discussing this issue is a “marker” (your term), for what? White nationalism? It is interesting to see that other participants in the thread jumped to the conclusion that the thread was “all about” the historic grievance of interest to _them_ (namely Israel/Palestine). They saw a completely contradictory set of “markers”. Seems to me that alone is an interesting result, no? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/151 "2009-07-08T16:33:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It is interesting to see that other participants in the thread jumped to the conclusion that the thread was “all about” the historic grievance of interest to _them_ (namely Israel/Palestine). They saw a completely contradictory set of “markers”. Seems to me that alone is an interesting result, no? They probably jumped to that conclusion because they recognize you as a voice who often sides with Israel (just as you probably recognize **Elvis** as a Israel critic). Not saying that’s a justified conclusion, but I seriously doubt that if your name was free from this association, anyone would be talking about Israel in that thread to a significant degree. Jewish reparations are a done deal and rarely argued about here. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/152 "2009-07-08T16:42:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > :rolleyes: I asked to find out what her views are. She said that she believs the US has already promised to pay reparations, so I think it’s reasonable to ask whether she thinks the US should do so. She pointed out a historical fact as a counterpoint to someone arguing that African chieftans be the ones to pay reparations. Since the issue of reparations was raised by someone else, it actually makes more sense that you trouble them with your question. **monstro** has repeatedly said on this board that she doesn’t believe in slavery reparations. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/153 "2009-07-08T16:42:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > They probably jumped to that conclusion because they recognize you are as a voice who often sides with Israeli (just as you probably recognize **Elvis** as a Israel critic). Not saying that’s a justified conclusion, but I seriously doubt that if your name was free from this association, few people would be talking about Israel in that thread. Namely because Jewish reparations are a done deal and rarely argued about here. Certainly that has something to do with it, but I disagree with your conclusions - the multiple grievances of the Israel/Palestine situation are something I certanly considered and were considered in the article I linked to in the OP. In the Israel/Palestine affair grievances run both ways, and the “hot topic” isn’t reparations for Jews for the Holocaust, but the Palestinian so-called “Right of Return” (and contrasting arguments for Shephardim re Arab countries). Though note that this situation would _not_ be covered by a historical limitations period any more than the Holocaust would, as there are people now alive who were directly affected in both cases (give it a few years and that will no longer be true). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/154 "2009-07-08T16:54:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > She pointed out a historical fact as a counterpoint to someone arguing that African chieftans be the ones to pay reparations. > > Since the issue of reparations was raised by someone else, it actually makes more sense that you trouble them with your question. **monstro** has repeatedly said on this board that she doesn’t believe in slavery reparations. It was raised by **Argent Towers** , and **monstro** quite reasonably responded that if African slavers’ descendants should be paying reparations then so should American slavers’ descendants, or the government, or whoever. She earlier perfectly reasonably pointed out that black people are still suffering from the lingering aftereffects of slavery. She then less reasonably contined the debate with **ashman somethingsomething** , and certainly _appeared_ to be arguing that the US ought to be paying reparations at that point, whatever she’s said here before. Personally, I think Argent’s argument is silly; if slaves’ descendants are legally entitled to reparations from two parties, then just because one isn’t paying doesn’t mean the other one doesn’t have to. Claims for reparations from African citizens or states would have to be made in African courts, under African (or international) law, and whether or not those claims are granted is immaterial to whether claims in American courts should or would be. In general, I think **monstro** ’s been quite reasonable here, but I can see why people think she’s arguing for reparations. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/155 "2009-07-08T16:59:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > She then less reasonably contined the debate with **ashman somethingsomething** , and certainly _appeared_ to be arguing that the US ought to be paying reparations at that point, whatever she’s said here before. [tongueincheek]Of course, that’s because anyone who argues against me is necessarily unreasonable. I might not always be right, but dammit I’m never wrong. QED [/tongueincheek] :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/156 "2009-07-08T17:07:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > She pointed out a historical fact as a counterpoint to someone arguing that African chieftans be the ones to pay reparations. “Historical fact” my ass. A promise to certain blacks by a US general over 100 years ago has nothing to do with reparations as currently debated, and characterizing the earlier promise as a promise by the US government to make reparations for slavery (which is what monstro did) is completely stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/157 "2009-07-08T20:01:27Z")
Question – the reparations paid to Japanese Americans for the internment camps – I assume they were only given to those who actually _interned_, and possibly family members? (Such as, children whose parents had passed away). But not just ALL Japanese Americans? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/158 "2009-07-08T20:10:38Z")
Just those Japanese interred or their immediate families (I believe it was something like $20-30k each). Not all Japanese American’s. -XT ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/159 "2009-07-09T00:14:40Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Just those Japanese interred or their immediate families (I believe it was something like $20-30k each). Not all Japanese American’s. > > -XT I think you mean “interned”. I don’t think any Japanese were rounded up and buried. Not in the U.S. anyway. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048/160 "2009-07-09T04:14:08Z")
Hey, I think there probably _should_ be a National Association for the Advancement of White People. For all white people, not just those born with silver spoons in their mouths. The rest of it, though, I agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youre-white-and-all-you-can-think-about-is-how-good-blacks-have-it-youre-an-idiot/502048.md?page=9)