# "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503 "2012-07-17T08:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/201 "2012-07-18T17:17:49Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I dunno how to fix this stuff. Maybe a great Charter School but a requirement is that all the girls get Norplant? Clunky at best, and I’ll probably be accused of advocating eugenics, etc. Requiring people to go on birth control because their parents are poor would upset a lot of people, yes. Why not just do the great school part? I have to think that if students think they really have a future, they’re much less less likely to jeopardize it by getting pregnant. > [@](#): > > but there has to be some pressure on that problem somewhere, and what we’re doing now isn’t working. At the risk of dragging in yet another topic, what’s not working is sex ed that emphasizes abstinence without paying enough attention to birth control and attacks on groups like Planned Parenthood that exist largely to get birth control to women who’d have trouble affording it. Ultimately these kinds of proposals bother me because not only do low-income people still pay taxes other than income tax, the idea of ‘make people who don’t have a lot of money pay more money’ fails a basic logic test. How are they going to improve their lot and “contribute more” at the same time? Won’t most if those people they just need to rely more heavily on social programs, or if those get cut - which is already a threat because of the state of the economy and is usually advocated in tandem with these ideas anyway - aren’t most of them going to get stuck in even worse poverty? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/202 "2012-07-18T17:24:11Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > 'Cause I’m a girl? It’s just two less keystrokes on my phone. > > If it’s something else, I’m not getting it. Oh. Phoning in your SDMB time. That hadn’t occurred to me. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/203 "2012-07-18T17:30:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s a lot of Huffington Post level foolishness in there, **Finagle**.So Obama was lying when he claimed that business owners were not paying enough in taxes? Actually I would be interested in a quote in which Obama claims that small businesses were not being taxed enough. Yes, he wants to raise taxes on those earning more than $200,000 but that is only a[fraction of small buisnesses](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/business/smallbusiness/18smallbiz.html) > [@](#): > > Despite that emotional appeal, Internal Revenue Service statistics indicate that only 3 percent of small businesses would be subject to the higher tax, and many studies of previous tax increases suggest that it would have minimal impact on hiring. The problem is that Republicans use the words “small businesses” when they really mean “rich friends of mine”. When I figured this out, GOP talking points started to make a lot more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/204 "2012-07-18T17:33:54Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I can’t speak for anyone else, but why the “we’re all in this together” meme drives me crazy is because it really doesn’t seem like it from here. I’m doing my part, but the rest… :rolleyes: You’re the only one contributing?? The US GDP was 15.9 Trillion in 2011. I’d tip my cap to your impressive industriousness, but I can’t be bothered to get out of the recliner you bought for me and put down the beer you got me. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/205 "2012-07-18T17:37:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > :rolleyes: You’re the only one contributing?? The US GDP was 15.9 Trillion in 2011. I’d tip my cap to your impressive industriousness, but I can’t be bothered to get out of the recliner you bought for me and put down the beer you got me. Not what I meant. I was speaking of two extremes that seem to cause the most trouble and are not asked to do anything differently - the chronically poor and the advantaged big business owners/ politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/206 "2012-07-18T17:40:13Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Then you have low income people continually making just awful personal choices that I avoided, even when they were painful, and I’m expected to give them my money. Is sitting around smoking pot a good personal choice? You seem to have failed to avoid that one. I can’t help but wonder how successful you’d be in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/207 "2012-07-18T17:46:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Requiring people to go on birth control because their parents are poor would upset a lot of people, yes. Why not just do the great school part? I have to think that if students think they really have a future, they’re much less less likely to jeopardize it by getting pregnant. > At the risk of dragging in yet another topic, what’s not working is sex ed that emphasizes abstinence without paying enough attention to birth control and attacks on groups like Planned Parenthood that exist largely to get birth control to women who’d have trouble affording it. Ultimately these kinds of proposals bother me because not only do low-income people still pay taxes other than income tax, the idea of ‘make people who don’t have a lot of money pay more money’ fails a basic logic test. How are they going to improve their lot and “contribute more” at the same time? Won’t most if those people they just need to rely more heavily on social programs, or if those get is usually advocated in tandem with these ideas anyway - aren’t most of them going to get stuck in even worse poverty? The sex Ed thing is a red herring. Everyone knows how babies are made. I’ve been caught pregnant and young myself. It didn’t have anything to do with sex Ed, but had everything to do with being a moron. IMO there is a problem with creating a culture where kids don’t see anything better, where they have no real belief that a good life is available to them. They have good schools, but because no one believes that school can really lead to success, the kids don’t respect the school and they turn into war zones. It’s a horrible shame, and I think that stopping the cycle of multiple teenage births may give some of these girls the breathing room to grow up and look at their potential in an adult way. It may also help to address the issue of how men and boys are treated and how they are allowed to act. Plus, with less children, there will be less sexual abuse. These are things that “good schools” can’t address, so spending more money there would be a bad investment. ---
**Author:** ![meanoldman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@meanoldman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meanoldman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/208 "2012-07-18T18:05:55Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > \ > > IMO there is a problem with creating a culture where kids don’t see anything better, where they have no real belief that a good life is available to them. They have good schools, but because no one believes that school can really lead to success, the kids don’t respect the school and they turn into war zones. > > \ > . This is going to come off as snarky, but that’s not the intent. **Sateryn76** do you still live in approximately the same neighborhood you grew up in? When you “made it” or whatever, did you move or are you a personal example to younger folks that a good life is available to them? Without some form of government program to provide incentives, what -are- the incentives for those that have made a better life to stay put in what might be called troubled neighborhoods? I am not saying any government program like that does or does not exist; just wondering why people would stay and be examples in those neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/209 "2012-07-18T18:06:22Z")
Everyone uses the same roads. Not everyone uses those roads as an opportunity to create a business that creates jobs. Everyone has THE OPPORTUNITY to create a business. Some don’t chose to. Creating jobs puts money into the community. Jobs and businesses pay taxes which puts money into government coffers. The government should be creating THE OPPORTUNITY for businesses and individuals to make good. The more money businesses and individuals make, the more money the government takes in at the current tax rates. Creating an even larger government that requires more and more taxes just to maintain itself doesn’t create businesses that create more businesses that create even more businesses. Businesses create jobs. Increasing taxes decreases the opportunity for businesses to create jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/210 "2012-07-18T18:07:08Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > The sex Ed thing is a red herring. Everyone knows how babies are made. You’re aware that sex ed is not primarily lessons on how to copulate, right? There are all sorts of common misconceptions that adolescents have that need to be corrected with facts: “You can’t get pregnant your first time.” “My periods are irregular, that must mean I’m sterile.” There are a heck of a lot of adults who don’t understand these things, forget about explaining it to their own kids. It isn’t a red herring at all, it’s a genuine problem that can be addressed. Your own personal experiences aren’t applicable to everyone, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/211 "2012-07-18T18:18:42Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > IMO there is a problem with creating a culture where kids don’t see anything better, where they have no real belief that a good life is available to them. They have good schools, but because no one believes that school can really lead to success, the kids don’t respect the school and they turn into war zones. > > It’s a horrible shame, and I think that stopping the cycle of multiple teenage births may give some of these girls the breathing room to grow up and look at their potential in an adult way. It may also help to address the issue of how men and boys are treated and how they are allowed to act. Plus, with less children, there will be less sexual abuse. I agree with this 100%. The problem is that the current attitude of the right of “I’ve got mine”, lift up the rich and kick down the poor, is only increasing the [opportunity gap](http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2011/01/10/krugman-on-inequality-of-opportunity/). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/212 "2012-07-18T18:18:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Increasing taxes decreases the opportunity for businesses to create jobs. Federal spending creates jobs, and it accomplishes goals private industry won’t touch. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/213 "2012-07-18T18:27:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Everyone uses the same roads. Not everyone uses those roads as an opportunity to create a business that creates jobs. Everyone has THE OPPORTUNITY to create a business. Some don’t chose to. > > Creating jobs puts money into the community. Jobs and businesses pay taxes which puts money into government coffers. The government should be creating THE OPPORTUNITY for businesses and individuals to make good. The more money businesses and individuals make, the more money the government takes in at the current tax rates. > > Creating an even larger government that requires more and more taxes just to maintain itself doesn’t create businesses that create more businesses that create even more businesses. Businesses create jobs. > > Increasing taxes decreases the opportunity for businesses to create jobs. I was just going to make a point similar to your first paragraph. Well said. It’s as if the government gives everyone $1,000. Some will squander it; some will just put it in the bank; and some will start a business in order to grow that $1,000. For those that do, if all goes well…PRESTO, jobs are created. Because of the initiative of the business owner. Everything else baseline, whether it be the $1,000 or "infrastructure is baseline. Like oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/214 "2012-07-18T18:30:56Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Kinda. I lived at home, didn’t work, and shared pot freely with my friends. Then consider higher taxes are payment for those 19 years. Can’t be freeloading, nosiree! ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/215 "2012-07-18T18:45:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I was just going to make a point similar to your first paragraph. Well said. > > It’s as if the government gives everyone $1,000. Some will squander it; some will just put it in the bank; and some will start a business in order to grow that $1,000. For those that do, if all goes well…PRESTO, jobs are created. Because of the initiative of the business owner. Everything else baseline, whether it be the $1,000 or "infrastructure is baseline. Like oxygen. As pointed out in my previous post, the low tax US actually provides much less opportunity and social mobility than much of high tax Europe. Opportunity is good, but advocating a system where the rich get richer and poor get poorer is not the way to bring it about. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/216 "2012-07-18T18:59:27Z")
> [@meanoldman](#): > > This is going to come off as snarky, but that’s not the intent. > **Sateryn76** do you still live in approximately the same neighborhood you grew up in? When you “made it” or whatever, did you move or are you a personal example to younger folks that a good life is available to them? > > Without some form of government program to provide incentives, what -are- the incentives for those that have made a better life to stay put in what might be called troubled neighborhoods? I am not saying any government program like that does or does not exist; just wondering why people would stay and be examples in those neighborhoods. No. While I live in the same county, the town I grew up in was immediately south of Gary, Indiana, and suffered a dizzyingly quick drop to the bottom of the scale starting about my junior year of high school. I understand that good models staying in the old neighborhood are important, but I would not subject my children to schools like that. Asking me to stay and asking nothing of those who live there seems like another lopsided demand to my and my family’s detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/217 "2012-07-18T19:04:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’re aware that sex ed is not primarily lessons on how to copulate, right? There are all sorts of common misconceptions that adolescents have that need to be corrected with facts: “You can’t get pregnant your first time.” “My periods are irregular, that must mean I’m sterile.” > > There are a heck of a lot of adults who don’t understand these things, forget about explaining it to their own kids. It isn’t a red herring at all, it’s a genuine problem that can be addressed. Your own personal experiences aren’t applicable to everyone, you know. It often seems that babies are a GOAL, not a mistake. My daughter, who is 16, knows plenty of girls who are pregnant and seem happy about it. My point is that education should probably focus more on consequences and devistated lives for both mom and baby, and that it can be different. Teach these kids like they’re capable of making good choices, not like they’re idiots. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/218 "2012-07-18T19:06:41Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > As pointed out in my previous post, the low tax US actually provides much less opportunity and social mobility than much of high tax Europe. Opportunity is good, but advocating a system where the rich get richer and poor get poorer is not the way to bring it about. I’d say that putting for the notion that businesses are started and succeed due anything other than the initiative of the individual will result in fewer businesses being started. Particularly by some enterprising person at the lower end of the socio-economic system. We should be championing individual effort, initiative, and hard work, especially for their benefit. Because those are the things don’t come from being wealthy and you can’t inherit them. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/219 "2012-07-18T19:07:39Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I agree with this 100%. The problem is that the current attitude of the right of “I’ve got mine”, lift up the rich and kick down the poor, is only increasing the [opportunity gap](http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2011/01/10/krugman-on-inequality-of-opportunity/). So jack the taxes up. Where are you spending the money to address these problems? School funding isn’t working. Its just not. If we can’t try different ideas, then pouring that money down a rat hole is all it is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/220 "2012-07-18T19:10:12Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > The sex Ed thing is a red herring. Everyone knows how babies are made. That’s not the problem. The problem is knowing how to put on a condom properly, what the pill is and where to get it, what the morning after pill is and where to find it, and so on, and maybe explaining that pulling out and the rhythm method don’t work very well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=12)