# "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503 "2012-07-17T08:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/241 "2012-07-18T22:53:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You forgot Saul Alinsky. \*Good point. \* Not to mention, Saul Alinsky!!! \*Thank you. You have contributed to the side of light and right. \* ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/242 "2012-07-18T22:55:38Z")
This was a thread about a speech. Now it is about assumed/imagined motives behind the speech. Based on how well my motives were interpreted - statist - I know that there is no talent for mind reading on display. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/243 "2012-07-18T22:57:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > \*Good point. \* > > Not to mention, Saul Alinsky!!! > > \*Thank you. You have contributed to the side of light and right. \* You forgot Tony Rezko. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/244 "2012-07-18T23:04:47Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > This was a thread about a speech. Now it is about assumed/imagined motives behind the speech. Based on how well my motives were interpreted - statist - I know that there is no talent for mind reading on display. Heavens, people are trying to parse the meaning of what a politician said! :eek: Say it isn’t so!! :eek::eek: Look. I apologized if it came across that I was attacking you, specifically. And I meant it. But if you agree with the bullshit Obama spewed you’re agreeing with statist doublespeak. Like I said, the next time Michael Phelps wins a medal you(pl) might as well as well give a medal to water, as well, for you know, being watery. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/245 "2012-07-18T23:04:56Z")
To be fair, he forgets a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/246 "2012-07-18T23:08:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You forgot Tony Rezko. Yeah, but now I have you to help me. 🆒 But thank you again for bringing up two associations that if the press would have done its job and reported on back in 2008—with half the vigor that they’re looking at Romney running Bain while he was very visibly running the Olympics—we might not have been stuck with a socialist in the White House. Vigilance. Constant vigilance… ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/247 "2012-07-18T23:19:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Like I said, the next time Michael Phelps wins a medal you(pl) might as well as well give a medal to water, as well, for you know, being watery. Not the water, but I’m sure the guy who built the pool got paid for his trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/248 "2012-07-18T23:20:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yeah, but now I have you to help me. 🆒 > > But thank you again for bringing up two associations that if the press would have done its job and reported on back in 2008—with half the vigor that they’re looking at Romney running Bain while he was very visibly running the Olympics—we might not have been stuck with a socialist in the White House. Just keep mentioning Barry Sotero/Bill Ayers/Jeremiah Wright/Saul Alinsky/Tony Rezko in the same sentence, and independent voters will give your argument all the attention it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/249 "2012-07-18T23:41:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Just keep mentioning Barry Sotero/Bill Ayers/Jeremiah Wright/Saul Alinsky/Tony Rezko in the same sentence, and independent voters will give your argument all the attention it deserves. Don’t forget Barrack **Hussein** Obama. I’d say it’s good for 2 or 3 anti-Dem votes every time it’s uttered. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/250 "2012-07-18T23:42:50Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Not the water, but I’m sure the guy who built the pool got paid for his trouble. And…? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/251 "2012-07-18T23:47:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Don’t forget Barrack **Hussein** Obama. I’d say it’s good for 2 or 3 anti-Dem votes every time it’s uttered. I’m sure you would. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/252 "2012-07-19T00:15:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The scorn is not directed at business people, or even at only successful business people. It’s directed at (successful) business people who will not and do not recognize the many factors that enabled them to be a success, who instead try to insist, both internally (to themselves) and externally (to the rest of the world) that their success owes little or nothing to the vast systems in place that they utilize on a daily basis in order to create, maintain, and grow their businesses. I think there’s a legitimate reason **Sateryn76** is feeling scorn. > [@Sateryn76](#): > > Does Obama have a list of cuts as well? Like the War on Drugs, defense spending, corporate subsidies, etc? Better look to the Republicans for this. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/253 "2012-07-19T00:17:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And…? Someone built the playing arena that Michael Phelps competes in. Someone creates the rules of the competition. Someone enforces those rules. Someone trains the judges. I have huge respect for what Michael Phelps can do, but there’s a little more behind his success than just hard work and water. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/254 "2012-07-19T00:56:03Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > The vast majority of any check you write to the IRS goes to supporting retirees and the Chinese government, and Guantanamo Bay and its associated fun-time activities. [Here](http://www.deathandtaxesposter.com/). > [@Fear Itself](#): > > Yes. No where in the Constitution does it says you get to keep every damn dollar you earn. You’da thunk the sixteenth amendment would have cleared things up for the Constitutionalists, wouldn’t you? But there’s some problem with Ohio or gold fringes or something… > [@Sicks Ate](#): > > I certainly think that this quote accurately reflects his attitude toward business owners; they aren’t really doing anything special (except for maybe showing a bit of initiative), they don’t really work that much harder than anyone else, and they’re really only taking advantage of an infrastructure built by government. Sure, they’re working harder than other people. Are they working 380 times as hard as others? Is their work 380 times as valuable than the average Americans? Are they worth more to America than 300 soldiers? Would a moderately informed American perform a CEO’s job 100 times worse than a CEO? > [@doorhinge](#): > > Increasing taxes decreases the opportunity for businesses to create jobs. Why is the unemployment rate in Norway under half that of the USs when it has higher tax rates and lower income inequality, if low tax rates stimulate job creation? > [@Rand Rover](#): > > Whether any particular person believes that rich people “deserve” their wealth or not doesn’t matter at all. Oh, it forms the crux of the matter. Well, in the aggregate that is. If income is an accurate assessment of worth to the country, then it’d be immoral to require businesspeople to pay tax. Instead, they should be able to hire mercenaries as they see fit. If the majority of people adhere to the labour theory of value, then that’s an entirely different scenario. > [@Koxinga](#): > > The small slice of discretionary spending that’s left, and the sliver of infrastructure spending that could be scraped out of that, is only going to shrink. [Public expenditure on semi-productive labour](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wXo9J9JyYE)? I like the idea. > [@Sateryn76](#): > > The sex Ed thing is a red herring. Everyone knows how babies are made. Here are a few polls which show [fundamental ignorance in that field](http://www.alternet.org/sex/155396/why_are_american_teens_so_ignorant_about_sex_and_birth_control/). [In some cases](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/05/alterman_ignorance.html), [systemically enforced ignorance](http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/597). The US rate pregnancy of 75/1000 teen girls is unprecedented. Even among white teen girls, there is a rate of 26/1000 or so, higher than the UK (which has the highest rates in Western Europe). Sweden and Denmark both have rates at about 7/1000. > [@magellan01](#): > > Like I said, the next time Michael Phelps wins a medal you(pl) might as well as well give a medal to water, as well, for you know, being watery. Funny. Mises claims people won’t compete for non-pecuniary rewards are insufficient incentives to competition. Prestige just doesn’t cut it. Likewise, he rails against Locke for claiming that land doesn’t have inherent value, only human intervention creates value. You seem to be adhering to the notion that the fixed assets do not convey value, the value inheres in the action. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/255 "2012-07-19T06:28:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Like I said, the next time Michael Phelps wins a medal you(pl) might as well as well give a medal to water, as well, for you know, being watery. Actually, he’d probably ask you instead to [donate to his foundation](http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/letter_from_michael.php), which he started to teach water safety and promote active and healthy lifestyle opportunities. Phelps states that he got his first taste of swimming at a water safety class - so now he’s designed similar classes for his foundation to provide, as a way of giving back. Phelps had this to say about starting his foundation: > [@](#): > > “Thanks to a lot of hard work, some good fortune, the inspiration I drew from so many supporters around the world, and incredible teammates, I was able to achieve that dream by winning eight Gold Medals in Beijing,” said Phelps. “Now, my goals reach beyond the pool, to helping others realize their dreams, and continuing to grow the sport I love so much. I feel it’s only appropriate that I continue the momentum that Speedo helped to create, by committing my bonus to the establishment of the Michael Phelps Foundation, which I hope will help me inspire others to achieve their dreams, and give back to the sport that has given me so much.” Phelps is also an ambassador to the Special Olympics. His water safety program, called IM, has been adapted for children with disabilities as well. Another of the Phelps Foundation’s programs is the Level Field Fund - Swimming. LFF provides financial support to young athletes so that they can afford to have access to the best coaches and events. The Level Field Fund -Swimming program is a grant from the Michael Phelps Foundation for young swimmers in need. Here’s what Michael has to say about that: [http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/levelfieldfundswimming.php](http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/levelfieldfundswimming.php) > [@](#): > > “Swimming is a sport that requires a significant support system to provide athletes with access to the best possible resources to improve and reach their full potential. Losing talented athletes because of a lack of financial means is troubling. We support the Level Field Fund because we are big believers that every athlete should have the chance to pursue their dreams to their full potential.” – Michael Phelps In short: if you told Michael Phelps that acknowledging all the many people who contribute to an Olympic athlete’s success would somehow diminish his achievements, he would laugh so hard they’d have to drain the pool. ETA - the Level Field Fund can be found here: [http://www.levelfieldfund.org/about](http://www.levelfieldfund.org/about) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/256 "2012-07-19T11:43:09Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Depends. Iraq, no. Afghanistan, maybe. Forgot to mention: this is bizarre. A soldier has no choice as to where they’re deployed, as far as I’m aware. They sign up, knowing they’re at risk of dying and deliberately put themselves into dangerous situations. Their heroism is independent of the overall judiciousness of the cause they’re serving. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby\_Slippers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/94ad74/32.png) [@Ruby\_Slippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby_Slippers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/257 "2012-07-19T13:24:32Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > The sex Ed thing is a red herring. Everyone knows how babies are made. > > I’ve been caught pregnant and young myself. It didn’t have anything to do with sex Ed, but had everything to do with being a moron. > > IMO there is a problem with creating a culture where kids don’t see anything better, where they have no real belief that a good life is available to them. They have good schools, but because no one believes that school can really lead to success, the kids don’t respect the school and they turn into war zones. > > It’s a horrible shame, and I think that stopping the cycle of multiple teenage births may give some of these girls the breathing room to grow up and look at their potential in an adult way. It may also help to address the issue of how men and boys are treated and how they are allowed to act. Plus, with less children, there will be less sexual abuse. > > These are things that “good schools” can’t address, so spending more money there would be a bad investment. I agree with you that a large part of the problem is kids who don’t believe that anything better is available to them. I’d be interested in your views on what might help in this area. Do you see any role for government? If you think the solution must come from the private sector, how would you push for that to happen? How did you make the transition from a pot-smoking single mother to a successful business owner? Can your own experience be translated into programs that can help others do the same? I’m really not trying to make any points here. If you have ideas, I’d love to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/258 "2012-07-19T14:53:24Z")
Here’s Romney criticizing Obama’s position on this: > [@](#): > > “There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That’s an important thing… I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There’s no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help.” [http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2012/07/19/12830947-romney-echoes-obama-line-on-public-institutions](http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/19/12830947-romney-echoes-obama-line-on-public-institutions) Yeah, uh, that’s a devastating smack down of what Obama said, or something. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/259 "2012-07-19T14:57:31Z")
That is just evidence of how much Romney loves America! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/260 "2012-07-19T16:02:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Geez, the crap you people post with a straight face. > [@Ann Romney](#): > > [we’ve given all you people need to know](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/ann-romney_n_1685735.html?utm_hp_ref=politics) OMG! It’s the smoking gun! Shodan is Ann Romney! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=14)