# "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503 "2012-07-17T08:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/281 "2012-07-20T08:03:07Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > So, what exactly was your point in bringing up Phelps? From Post 228: > [@](#): > > So, in the spirit of being “fair”(?), “helpful”(?), or God know’s what, you seek to employ some three-card monty sleight-of-hand and take some of the credit away from the individual. It’s like taking a successful ski racer and giving credit to the mountain, gravity, or snow. Or saying that michael Phelps should be sharing his success with the properties of water. And them someone commented with something along the lines of, “Yeah, but someone had to build the pool.” For which the world does not have enough roll-eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/282 "2012-07-20T08:13:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From Post 228: I’ve got one of those fancy computers that lets me go back and re-read what people have written, so it’s not particularly useful to just quote yourself. I’m asking why you brought up Phelps in the first place. What point were you trying to make? > [@](#): > > And them someone commented with something along the lines of, “Yeah, but someone had to build the pool.” For which the world does not have enough roll-eyes. :rolleyes: right back at ya. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/283 "2012-07-20T12:08:22Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > The vast majority of any check you write to the IRS goes to supporting retirees and the Chinese government, and Guantanamo Bay and its associated fun-time activities. > > Now who’s being naive, Kay? Then why isn’t the GOP beating up on the retirees, free trade and Gitmo? They seem to be intensely focused on about 9% of the federal budget as a way to close a 30% gap. > [@Merneith](#): > > Actually, he’d probably ask you instead to [donate to his foundation](http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/letter_from_michael.php), which he started to teach water safety and promote active and healthy lifestyle opportunities. Phelps states that he got his first taste of swimming at a water safety class - so now he’s designed similar classes for his foundation to provide, as a way of giving back. > > Phelps had this to say about starting his foundation: > > Phelps is also an ambassador to the Special Olympics. His water safety program, called IM, has been adapted for children with disabilities as well. > > Another of the Phelps Foundation’s programs is the Level Field Fund - Swimming. LFF provides financial support to young athletes so that they can afford to have access to the best coaches and events. The Level Field Fund -Swimming program is a grant from the Michael Phelps Foundation for young swimmers in need. Here’s what Michael has to say about that: > [http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/levelfieldfundswimming.php](http://www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/levelfieldfundswimming.php) > > In short: if you told Michael Phelps that acknowledging all the many people who contribute to an Olympic athlete’s success would somehow diminish his achievements, he would laugh so hard they’d have to drain the pool. > > ETA - the Level Field Fund can be found here: [http://www.levelfieldfund.org/about](http://www.levelfieldfund.org/about) +1 ETA: BTW this thread title is incredibly misleading to the point of fraudulent. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/284 "2012-07-20T12:33:57Z")
It’s a direct quote of a complete sentence. BTW, I saw some columnist make a good point: If the preceding sentence, “somebody invested in roads and bridges,” was meant to be referred to in the sentence in question, why didn’t the president say “those” (plural) in reference to “roads and bridges,” instead of “that” (singular)? As I say, at the very least I think there’s a bit of deliberate ambiguity built in there. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/285 "2012-07-20T12:36:08Z")
Deliberate ambiguity built in…for what purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/286 "2012-07-20T12:39:06Z")
Wink and a nod to the base, of course, while leaving room for a plausible claim (as you guys do) that "oh, no, no, the president didn’t mean _that_ . . . Kind of like when Republicans run on “law and order” and “family values.” Consult your playbook. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/287 "2012-07-20T13:05:04Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Wink and a nod to the base, of course, while leaving room for a plausible claim (as you guys do) that "oh, no, no, the president didn’t mean _that_ . . . > > Kind of like when Republicans run on “law and order” and “family values.” Consult your playbook. So, let’s explore this idea. You appear to be asserting that the Democratic “base” (or at least Obama’s base, if these are different) is ideologically attached to the idea that no citizens of a state are capable of achieving any success without the direct assistance of government. And that the dog whistles used in Democratic (or Obamanian) circles are references to infrastructure, group effort and the American system of government. (Possibly because our real goal is for all of our family, friends, neighbors, military men & women, firefighters, police & etc. to be mindless pablum fed drones running on government programming?) Wouldn’t it be less of an intellectual excursion to just parse the meaning of the POTUS’ quote in the context of what he was saying? I know Republicans don’t expect politicians to say what they mean or to mean what they say, but why not try listening that way once in a while purely as an analytical technique? When Obama says “you didn’t build _that_”, why wouldn’t he have been referring to the “unbelievable American system that we have” on which he’d based his theme, and from which he’d just listed several real consequences specially beneficial to American businesses? ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/288 "2012-07-20T13:10:23Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > It’s a direct quote of a complete sentence. > > BTW, I saw some columnist make a good point: If the preceding sentence, “somebody invested in roads and bridges,” was meant to be referred to in the sentence in question, why didn’t the president say “those” (plural) in reference to “roads and bridges,” instead of “that” (singular)? > > As I say, at the very least I think there’s a bit of deliberate ambiguity built in there. Which columnist made that “good point”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/289 "2012-07-20T13:18:10Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > When Obama says “you didn’t build _that_”, why wouldn’t he have been referring to the “unbelievable American system that we have” on which he’d based his theme, and from which he’d just listed several real consequences specially beneficial to American businesses? Obama obviously meant the entire business, not the infrastructure that supports it. If Obama thought that those who start businesses succeed in part because of their individual initiative, he would have said so. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/290 "2012-07-20T13:22:50Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Obama obviously meant the entire business, not the infrastructure that supports it. If Obama thought that those who start businesses succeed in part because of their individual initiative, he would have said so. Read the speech. He did say that. I even quote it in post two or three of this thread. Can’t delink from phone though sorry. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/291 "2012-07-20T13:30:15Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Read the speech. He did say that. I even quote it in post two or three of this thread. Can’t delink from phone though sorry. I think **Ludovic** ’s post might have been a bit… ferrous in intent. Br’er **Ludovic**? Irony any? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/292 "2012-07-20T13:31:02Z")
If it were any moreso I’d have to change my name to Alanis. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/293 "2012-07-20T13:48:40Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Which columnist made that “good point”. I think it was Charles Krauthammer, though I can’t find it online at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/294 "2012-07-20T13:55:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I think it was Charles Krauthammer, though I can’t find it online at the moment. That guy doesn’t make good points. He’s as rabid right wing as they come in the newspaper commentary section. I live in Chicago and have seen his crap for years. I would pretty much just assume the opposite of whatever point he’s trying to massacre in the future. You’ll be better off that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/295 "2012-07-20T13:59:04Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > It’s a direct quote of a complete sentence. > > BTW, I saw some columnist make a good point: If the preceding sentence, “somebody invested in roads and bridges,” was meant to be referred to in the sentence in question, why didn’t the president say “those” (plural) in reference to “roads and bridges,” instead of “that” (singular)? > > As I say, at the very least I think there’s a bit of deliberate ambiguity built in there. I’ve always been told that covert attempts to destroy America will be exposed through minor discrepancies in syntax. Good catch! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/296 "2012-07-20T20:02:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve got one of those fancy computers that lets me go back and re-read what people have written, so it’s not particularly useful to just quote yourself. I’m asking why you brought up Phelps in the first place. What point were you trying to make? You’ve got to be kidding. Here, I’ll give you a hint: the reason I brought him up, and skiing, revolves around the word “like”. If you can’t figure it out from there, you may want to go ask an English teacher. Or one of his or her students. It’s really that basic. I In the meantime, you’ve earned another :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/297 "2012-07-20T20:16:36Z")
The sad thing is this is what were talking about instead of how to stop the government and corporate bureaucrats from stealing everything we love and squandering our opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/298 "2012-07-20T21:11:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’ve got to be kidding. Here, I’ll give you a hint: the reason I brought him up, and skiing, revolves around the word “like”. If you can’t figure it out from there, you may want to go ask an English teacher. Or one of his or her students. It’s really that basic. I > > In the meantime, you’ve earned another :rolleyes: So you think teachers and bridges are “like” gravity and water, and that Michael Phelps becoming wet was somehow illustrative of this similarity. My mistake. I thought there was some subtlety I was missing. Instead, you’re just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/299 "2012-07-21T04:34:15Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > So you think teachers and bridges are “like” gravity and water, and that Michael Phelps becoming wet was somehow illustrative of this similarity. > > My mistake. I thought there was some subtlety I was missing. Instead, you’re just wrong. Uh, no. Especially since you’ve offered no rationale. The bottom line is that people who start businesses and succeed deserve the credit for doing so. They’ve played on the same play field as everyone else, yet they suited up and did what was necessary. Milions of people drive on the same roads they do and didn’t take advantage of the infrastructure and do all the other things to open the doors and make their businesses succeed. The Steve Jobses, Michael Phelpses, and Martha Stewarts of the world deserve the credit. Not the computer chip, swimming pool manufacturers or arts and crafts stores. Most important, we should be presenting the narrative to the world that yes, it was the individual who made his success happen. THAT is how you encourage other individuals to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/300 "2012-07-21T04:38:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Most important, we should be presenting the narrative to the world that yes, it was the individual who made his success happen. THAT is how you encourage other individuals to do the same. While I don’t disagree with that, I think the point is that the over-glorification of the Entrepreneur is seeming to lead to this idea that public spending is always bad and wasteful, rather than recognizing that large scale commerce would not be possible without public investments in infrastructure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=16)