# "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503 "2012-07-17T08:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/601 "2012-07-26T19:30:33Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > First water, now oxygen and livers. The huge difference is that there is already oxygen in the atmosphere. We are born with a liver. No one needs to put in a lot of effort to make those things available to us. Bridges (and all the other things I mentioned) are different. Someone needs to make those things happen before we can all enjoy the benefits. Someone had to birth you. Therefore, the fact that you had a mother is the reason for your success. true, but so obvious as to go without saying, and not the thing that made you uniquely successful, since everyone has a mother. > [@](#): > > And here is the problem. You think of all the man-made infrastructure in this country as banal. You only responded to part of my post #569, so I’ll go over this again. To treat these things as banal, as givens, as basics, is to neglect them and risk losing them. It takes effort to invent, build, and maintain these things. Someday, even something like the internet will be surpassed. I hope it happens here first; there are great benefits to be had. That won’t happen if we think of it as being like the air we breathe. It’s banal because everyone knows we need them and no one is opposed to them. It’s been pointed out correctly that the President was using a classic straw man argument. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/602 "2012-07-26T19:31:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Where he goes wrong is in saying that the difference maker was the bridge or the public school. You say that as if there is only one thing that makes the difference between success and failure. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/603 "2012-07-26T19:32:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, when someone says something and it gets taken out of context, it’s justified as being a clue into their deeply held views. I think it’s entirely reasonable to see the President’s and Warren’s statements as an insight into their love of the state. bs. Context is what gives something meaning. You take away the context and you take away the meaning, or severely alter it. How do you define context then? You are seeing exactly what you want to see, that’s it. Also, the name of the state in which we reside is the United States of America. So you are accusing Obama and Warren of loving the USA then? Don’t you love your country too? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/604 "2012-07-26T19:33:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Where he goes wrong is in saying that the difference maker was the bridge or the public school. Cite where he used the term difference maker? Its one thing to take something out of context and completely change its meaning. Its another thing to add your own content that isn’t there and use that to criticize. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/605 "2012-07-26T19:42:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You say that as if there is only one thing that makes the difference between success and failure. There isn’t. We just know that public infrastructure isn’t one of those things. Why is Lebron James a better basketball player than Reggie Evans? By Obama’s logic, the answer would be “Someone created the NBA.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/606 "2012-07-26T19:43:25Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > bs. Context is what gives something meaning. You take away the context and you take away the meaning, or severely alter it. How do you define context then? > > You are seeing exactly what you want to see, that’s it. > > Also, the name of the state in which we reside is the United States of America. So you are accusing Obama and Warren of loving the USA then? Don’t you love your country too? The sum of a country is not its government. In fact, the founders recognized government as a necessary evil, not something to be adored. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/607 "2012-07-26T19:44:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There isn’t. We just know that public infrastructure isn’t one of those things. Why is Lebron James a better basketball player than Reggie Evans? By Obama’s logic, the answer would be “Someone created the NBA.” If he was born in Somalia and spent his childhood avoiding getting killed (assuming he does avoid it and survives childhood) rather than playing basketball he probably wouldn’t be a very good basketball player, would he? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/608 "2012-07-26T19:45:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Cite where he used the term difference maker? > > Its one thing to take something out of context and completely change its meaning. > > Its another thing to add your own content that isn’t there and use that to criticize. Okay, so we’re back to him making an incredibly obvious observation. Which I guess is an effective way to get past the current controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/609 "2012-07-26T19:46:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The sum of a country is not its government. In fact, the founders recognized government as a necessary evil, not something to be adored. What is a country without a governing body then? Is that what you want? And when did I say that the government was the sum of a country? Where’d you get that from? You accused Obama and Warren of loving the state, but our state is the USA, so how is accusing them of loving the state of which they are a citizen a bad thing? I don’t get how this is supposed to be a smear. ---
**Author:** ![HansGrosse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@HansGrosse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HansGrosse)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/610 "2012-07-26T19:46:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The sum of a country is not its government. In fact, the founders recognized government as a necessary evil, not something to be adored. Are you just ignoring all the counterarguments on purpose? You seem to keep dodging the same points repeatedly. What’s with all these strawmen arguments? Nobody is denying that hard work and intelligence matter. Why do you continue to ignore this? Everyone’s been screaming it at you and it’s like it’s not registering. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/611 "2012-07-26T19:46:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There isn’t. We just know that public infrastructure isn’t one of those things. Why is Lebron James a better basketball player than Reggie Evans? By Obama’s logic, the answer would be “Someone created the NBA.” Did you miss the part of the speech were he praised individual initiative and hard work? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/612 "2012-07-26T19:47:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If he was born in Somalia and spent his childhood avoiding getting killed (assuming he does avoid it and survives childhood) rather than playing basketball he probably wouldn’t be a very good basketball player, would he? Again, America’s liberty and stability gave him the ability to succeed where others did not. America’s liberty and stability are not what we spend 20% of GDP on. We had liberty and stability when spending 5% of GDP. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/613 "2012-07-26T19:48:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, so we’re back to him making an incredibly obvious observation. Which I guess is an effective way to get past the current controversy. You can say that several things helped make something happened, it doesn’t mean that any one of these things must be the “difference maker”. What business in America would survive it was attempted in Somalia? Or at the south pole? ---
**Author:** ![HansGrosse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@HansGrosse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HansGrosse)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/614 "2012-07-26T19:49:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Again, America’s liberty and stability gave him the ability to succeed where others did not. America’s liberty and stability are not what we spend 20% of GDP on. We had liberty and stability when spending 5% of GDP. Did you not read my earlier post? It’s more than just “liberty and stability.” There are loads of differences between our country and others. Lots of aspects to our country that make it what it is that isn’t possible without tax dollars that everyone benefits from. Yes, there’s a lot of wasteful spending that should be canned, but we also need to increase tax revenues, too. You need a combination of both to solve this problem. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/615 "2012-07-26T19:49:49Z")
Okay, I get it. The President said nothing of note. “My daughters are female.” would have been an equally interesting thing for him to say. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/616 "2012-07-26T19:51:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, I get it. The President said nothing of note. “My daughters are female.” would have been an equally interesting thing for him to say. I’m not sure that’s the point either, but he certainly didn’t say anything controversial or groundbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/617 "2012-07-26T19:52:55Z")
> [@HansGrosse](#): > > Did you not read my earlier post? > > It’s more than just “liberty and stability.” There are loads of differences between our country and others. Lots of aspects to our country that make it what it is that isn’t possible without tax dollars that everyone benefits from. > > Yes, there’s a lot of wasteful spending that should be canned, but we also need to increase tax revenues, too. You need a combination of both to solve this problem. We’re not really talking about wasteful spending so much as spending that does not contribute to people’s success. We may like having Medicare and Social Security and food stamps because we want to be compassionate, but those do not contribute much, if any, to success. We had success before we had those things. Those things have ameliorated poverty, but they have not increased the number of people who excel. We don’t need more tax revenue to fund infrastructure. We need more tax revenue to save the entitlement state. Which is another reason the President’s argument makes no sense. If he was being honest, he’d just say that successful people need to pay more to make less successful people’s lives easier. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/618 "2012-07-26T19:54:35Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure that’s the point either, but he certainly didn’t say anything controversial or groundbreaking. I think HE thought he was making an important point. it does not seem that this was a throwaway statement. Either he said something important, or he did not. If he was trying to make an important point, it was stupid. If he was just stating the obvious, it was banal. Seems to me that he tried to say something important, it came out wrong, and for damage control purposes he’d rather everyone just think it was banal. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/619 "2012-07-26T19:59:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’re not really talking about wasteful spending so much as spending that does not contribute to people’s success. We may like having Medicare and Social Security and food stamps because we want to be compassionate, but those do not contribute much, if any, to success. Well some people don’t like the idea of our elderly and our children born to less fortunate circumstances dying sick and penniless in the street. That’s why we started these programs in the beginning. I’d call Grandma being able to retire and live out her senior years with dignity and our poor children not starving to death in an alley like some third world hell hole a success, wouldn’t you? Do you really want to go back to Oliver Twist times? With all 4 grandparents living at your house if they’re lucky enough to have relatives to take them in that is? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/620 "2012-07-26T20:03:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think HE thought he was making an important point. it does not seem that this was a throwaway statement. > > Either he said something important, or he did not. If he was trying to make an important point, it was stupid. If he was just stating the obvious, it was banal. > > Seems to me that he tried to say something important, it came out wrong, and for damage control purposes he’d rather everyone just think it was banal. No, it seems to be that people are reading in exactly what they want to see to support their preconceived notions of what he thinks and believes. If you already believe that he is a socialist state loving communist who loves taxes as high as possible, then you’ll see these preposterous ideas reflected in almost everything he says. Your perception is clouded by your personal views. If what you’re saying is objectively true, then why do so many people not see what you are seeing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=32)