# "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503 "2012-07-17T08:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/721 "2012-07-29T15:32:15Z")
I’m not the last holdout, I just arrived late and noticed everyone seemed to be on the same page. So I thought I’d give you my two dollars. The majority is usually right, but not always. Especially around election season, when most posters have a favored candidate and aren’t willing to concede much. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/722 "2012-07-29T17:48:36Z")
I just had a thought. Wait, come back! Okay, here it is: If the remarks fully in context, with nothing left out, are that clearcut, then why doesn’t the DNC and the President just play the portion unedited? Why did the President instead make an ad talking to the camera and explaining his comments? I bet they focused grouped it and found that it would be best not to show the video. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/723 "2012-07-29T18:03:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I just had a thought. Wait, come back! > > Okay, here it is: If the remarks fully in context, with nothing left out, are that clearcut, then why doesn’t the DNC and the President just play the portion unedited? Why did the President instead make an ad talking to the camera and explaining his comments? > > I bet they focused grouped it and found that it would be best not to show the video. The full speech has already been made available by the white house. It isn’t like they are hiding it. I kinda doubt they spent time focus testing the ad and the speech against each other. The focus test results would be ‘well that ones a bit to long lets air the shorter version with the same message’ Air time is expensive. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/724 "2012-07-29T18:10:40Z")
I know they aren’t hiding it, they can’t. But if they want to rebut the twisting of his words, then is it better for them to just show the critical 30 seconds or avoid it altogether and have Obama himself explain it? And given how serious this was becoming, it would be political malpractice to not focus group potential responses to it. If there’s one thing candidate Obama is great at, it’s perfectly calibrating his statements if he’s given enough time to prepare them(and presumably focus group and poll test them). ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/725 "2012-07-30T00:42:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But if they want to rebut the twisting of his words, then is it better for them to just show the critical 30 seconds or avoid it altogether and have Obama himself explain it? Why would he? As it is, the only people who buy into that tortured interpretation of his words are people who were dead set against him in the first place; people who WANT to believe that he said that rather than actually finding it a logical conclusion to make. You’re proselytizing, **adaher**. We don’t believe in your right-wing religion, so we can’t buy into your interpretation that relies totally on faith and not facts. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/726 "2012-07-30T03:54:37Z")
I think you are mistaken. If the only people buying into it were those already not supporting him, it wouldn’t be a problem. Romney doesn’t waste time rebutting attacks that no one but Obama supporters believe. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/727 "2012-07-30T11:55:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think you are mistaken. If the only people buying into it were those already not supporting him, it wouldn’t be a problem. Romney doesn’t waste time rebutting attacks that no one but Obama supporters believe. Could we trouble you for an example or two of attacks that no one but Obama supporters believe? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/728 "2012-07-30T18:56:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is firing people No, it isn’t, because an employee/employer relationship is different from a client/provider relationship. In the former instance, the employer directs the means of production. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/729 "2012-07-30T19:57:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I know they aren’t hiding it, they can’t. But if they want to rebut the twisting of his words, then is it better for them to just show the critical 30 seconds or avoid it altogether and have Obama himself explain it? > > And given how serious this was becoming, it would be political malpractice to not focus group potential responses to it. If there’s one thing candidate Obama is great at, it’s perfectly calibrating his statements if he’s given enough time to prepare them(and presumably focus group and poll test them). Well, dude, you’ve apparently reviewed the comments in context, and it didn’t work with you, why would you think it would hold promise to sway other right-wing partisans from a Fox talking point? As you yourself noted not far upstream, "The majority is usually right, but not always. Especially around election season, when most posters have a favored candidate and _aren’t willing to concede much_. (emphasis mine) Substitue “voters” for “posters”, and there you are… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/730 "2012-07-30T22:29:23Z")
Because I read the right wing blogs, and many of them do actually interpret his remarks differently and their explanations are quite reasonable. They point out as I have, that if he said what his defenders say he said, he really didn’t say anything at all. And if his supporters had heard what they say they heard after the outrage got started, then what were they cheering about? He could have just as easily said, "American cheese is best when it’s yellow!’ (APPLAUSE!!!) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/731 "2012-07-30T22:42:02Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > As a metaphor, it fails in a test of public opinion. Most people would say they like to choose between different healthcare providers (actually, most people would just like access to healthcare at all). Only Mitt “Job Creator” Romney and his libertarian ilk would claim to like being able to fire people. What? Are you saying that there is no difference between, “I like being able to fire people” and “I like firing people.”? I must not be understanding your point, because that’s absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/732 "2012-07-30T22:54:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because I read the right wing blogs, and many of them do actually interpret his remarks differently and their explanations are quite reasonable. > > They point out as I have, that if he said what his defenders say he said, he really didn’t say anything at all. And if his supporters had heard what they say they heard after the outrage got started, then what were they cheering about? He could have just as easily said, "American cheese is best when it’s yellow!’ (APPLAUSE!!!) So don’t you look silly going on and on about such unremarkable remarks. I mean, you have the most posts in this thread, and15 more posts than magellan, who in turn has 20 more than the next highest person. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/733 "2012-07-30T22:55:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They point out as I have, that if he said what his defenders say he said, he really didn’t say anything at all. And if his supporters had heard what they say they heard after the outrage got started, then what were they cheering about? He could have just as easily said, "American cheese is best when it’s yellow!’ (APPLAUSE!!!) You may be more right than you know. American cheese is naturally white, it only becomes yellow because some coloring agent is put in to make it happen. Uninformed people take the yellowness for granted, just as they take for granted that our national infrastructure (in all its forms) will remain state-of-the-art no matter how much we skimp on the budgets for it. Why is that worthy of applause? There has been a recent narrative in public discourse that government is always the problem, an impediment to progress; we should cut taxes, cut spending, cut regulations, drown it in a bathtub, and let the unfettered private sector build us a paradise. Maybe the audience was just happy to see someone stand up and say that government can accomplish positive things that make all our lives better, and that it should continue to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/734 "2012-07-30T23:25:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They point out as I have, that if he said what his defenders say he said, he really didn’t say anything at all. And if his supporters had heard what they say they heard after the outrage got started, then what were they cheering about? He could have just as easily said, "American cheese is best when it’s yellow!’ (APPLAUSE!!!) If it weren’t for the crazy cult of Jon Galters that has taken over the Republican Party, what he said would be totally unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/735 "2012-07-31T15:59:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because I read the right wing blogs, and many of them do actually interpret his remarks differently and their explanations are quite reasonable. > > They point out as I have, that if he said what his defenders say he said, he really didn’t say anything at all. And if his supporters had heard what they say they heard after the outrage got started, then what were they cheering about? He could have just as easily said, "American cheese is best when it’s yellow!’ (APPLAUSE!!!) So you do get that you just totally reinforced the point I was making, right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/736 "2012-07-31T16:29:12Z")
Let’s look at the even fuller context of the remarks. Were they or were they not inspired by Elizabeth Warren’s similar remarks, which became a huge deal all over the liberal blogosphere. If the remarks were so obvious, why would it be seen as a heroic defense of something important? Being honest, if there hadn’t been a brouhaha over Obama’s remarks, what would liberals be saying about them? What did THEY feel they heard him say? personally, I think the reaction would be much different. Instead of downplaying their importance, they would have been cited as important statements of Democratic principle. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/737 "2012-07-31T16:33:28Z")
Wait, now they’re a heroic defense? I thought you just said they were a ho hum statement of the obvious? Which is it? Do you have a point, or are you just cutting and pasting miscellaneous crap from right wing blogs? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/738 "2012-07-31T16:35:45Z")
So, you get that you **continue** to reinforce the point I was making, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sekigahara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@Sekigahara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sekigahara)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503/739 "2012-08-08T20:53:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I can’t say I’m free from all bias, but I honestly think that my primary view isn’t Democrat/Republican or liberal/conservative. It’s statements like this that worry me:I take the President’s words at face value because I try to do that with everyone. When Romney announces plans to lower taxes or decrease regulation, I don’t say he wants to line the pockets of his friends or send twelve-year-olds to work in the coal mines. I think there’s still plenty of room for debate even though Obama’s not a socialist and Romney’s not a robber baron. Wait a minute – Romney’s _not_ a robber-baron? I beg to differ. Bain Capital pioneered out-sourcing US jobs to cheap third world countries, and Romney apparently engaged in every accounting and off-shore banking tactic possible to avoid paying taxes to the country that allowed him to rake in this windfall. He is exactly the kind of person who wants to line the pockets of his friends and he’d have no problem sending twelve-year-olds to work in coal mines if there wasn’t a law against it. In any other country in the world this guy would be laughed off the ballot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that-somebody-else-made-that-happen/628503.md?page=36)