# If Zimmerman is found "not guilty" will there be rioting? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221 "2013-07-11T12:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/101 "2013-07-17T17:08:54Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > But of course people who want to use categorization to further their agendas do not see in shades of grey if it does not suit their purposes. Thanks for this. We do need to get to that spot, I think. I, for one, am very happy and encouraged that the rioting seems to be limited to the usual sorts of hotheads. Once upon a time I visited the state fair and in the farm animal exhibit it appeared to be nap time for dozens of baby ducklings. Except for one. This little hyper-active fuzz-head was running rampant all over the pen, trampling on top of his little cousins and siblings. A little concerning for ducky mental health if it hadn’t been so hilarious. One of the riot videos I saw showed something similar. He appeared to be an anarchist-type ('scuse the profiling for brevity) running with the pack. And every chance he got he kicked something, threw something. His behavior didn’t seem to be infectious. And that’s something different. The Walmart looters? They weren’t about Martin. Riding on political coat-tails. No grieving there - big grins and celebration of being naughty. I might add that most of what I have read on this message board has maintained a fair level of civil discourse as well. Whoopee. Good place to be while both sides were spitting venom on each other all over the web. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/102 "2013-07-17T17:09:34Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I agree - more or less - with **even sven** (See Post #88) OK, **even sven** ’s proposed definition: > [@](#): > > IMHO, a riot involves multiple, disparate groups and individuals following their own separate agendas across multiple parts of a city, severely disrupting daily life (closing businesses, curfews, etc.) and requiring force outside of the local police to quell. That’s fine. But frankly, that’s not at all the impression I got from the Q&A at the beginning of this thread, especially considering that the poll had options for “limited” and “wide scale.” I would venture that **even sven** ’s definition is “wide scale” rioting. But the OP asks if there will be limited rioting, wide-scale rioting, or no rioting. **Honesty** replies: > [@](#): > > It’s such a racist question: there will be no rioting. Given the availability of limited, wide-scale, or no rioting, it sure seems to me that this answre predicts NO rioting, period, not even limited rioting. Am I reading this wrongly? It seems to me a better answer would be: “Apart from the usual hotheads that will go wild for any lame reason, there will be no rioting - nothing at all serious.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/103 "2013-07-18T18:11:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I suppose the media who reported the riots are “racist” too, as well as the shop-owners who had their stores vandalized or the dude who got beat with a hammer. :rolleyes: > > And, of course, no one said or even implied that _“those people" are going to riot no matter what, and always riot, because of their race_.” Putting words in peoples mouths like that, or impugning racist thoughts- _that_ is racist. Only someone trying to equate the two issues to sow doubt would believe that media reports of what is actually happening is racist and comparable to speculation about what might happen by a group of people based on their race. My question to you is, what do you hope to gain from this line of thinking? Are you trying to get people to equate blacks with riots? For what purpose? And I have put no words in people’s mouths regarding their idle speculation. There are people on Fox who clearly worried about race riots prior to the verdict. Those aren’t made up, go look it up because I’m not going to do your homework for you :rolleyes: > [@Bricker](#): > > Agreed that the disturbances of last night were limited to very few people. > > And I’ll agree, too, that the prediction was racist. > > But if I’m walking down the street with David Duke, and we see a black man on the corner, Duke might say to me, “Hey, there’s a criminal, huh?” > > “What? How do you know?” > > “He’s black,” Duke might reply. > > “That’s an absurd and racist conclusion,” I would answer. > > If we then see the guy take money from a passing car and deliver a glass tube of heroin, it’s incumbent on me to acknowledge that Duke’s prediction was correct. Still racist, but facts are facts - the guy WAS a criminal. > > Right? And I have no problems with this scenario. I don’t think your example here differs at all from what I said ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/104 "2013-08-08T15:46:42Z")
[A riot.](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Police-Post-Photos-of-Huntington-Beach-Riot-Suspects-to-Facebook-218793601.html) Now, contrary to the qualifiers offered by **even sven** and others, I (and the headline writers for this NBC station) have no problem calling this a riot. It didn’t involve burning buildings or tens of thousands of dollars in property damage. But it’s a riot, and everyone is comfortable calling it a riot. Yes? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/105 "2013-08-08T16:49:58Z")
Are you saying this was a Trayvon-related riot? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/106 "2013-08-08T16:57:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you saying this was a Trayvon-related riot? No, not remotely. This riot appears to be related to Surf Week. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/107 "2013-08-08T17:00:48Z")
Oh, carry on then. I note that the article calls them “suspected rioters”. Maybe that means they haven’t confirmed that it was a riot yet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/108 "2013-08-08T17:11:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, not remotely. This riot appears to be related to Surf Week. To correct myself: This riot appears to be related to the U.S. Open of Surfing. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, carry on then. I note that the article calls them “suspected rioters”. Maybe that means they haven’t confirmed that it was a riot yet. 😉 Nope: > [@](#): > > Huntington Beach police officers posted photos on Facebook of suspected participants in the July 28 riots after the U.S. Open of Surfing and are asking for the public’s help to identify them. The riots themselves are not “suspected” of being riots – these particular individuals are suspected of being part of the riots. Point is, of course, that in this context a disturbance of this magnitude is uncontroversially a riot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/109 "2013-08-08T19:38:15Z")
The riots out in Oakland have been outed by one local news source as starting with local “Communists” (who are primarily white & middle aged) and another source as the violence being caused by Anarchists (again, who are said to be white). So yes, the demonstration sin Oakland are mostly by young black men, who may indeed indulge in some window breaking, etc. But the cause of any of these mostly peaceful demonstrations seems to be agitators who the sources say are white. So, thus according to the various news source, the ‘riot” part (in the Oakland area0 is caused not by blacks, but by outside white agitators taking advantage of the anger. Which is flamed by the completely incompetent Oakland PD. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/110 "2013-08-08T20:50:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, not remotely. This riot appears to be related to Surf Week. Then it doesn’t fit the OP, so what’s all the fuss about? And, yes, assuming a RACE riot by the race you are not a part of is racism. The entire implication is that black people are so inferior that they, unlike white people, will riot over it. And will people ever realize that it doesn’t matter if it winds up being true? Just like it doesn’t matter if that black guy really was a rapist if the reason why you avoided him was because he was black. The _a priori_ assumption that black people will riot because of a verdict they don’t like is racist. Not that this matters, anyways, as this wasn’t about Martin and wasn’t a race riot. It doesn’t fit the OP. So I am perfectly fine in predicting no riots even if you call this a riot. And, yes, I personally had always assumed that a riot meant at least two different groups being involved. I find it odd that the definition in the dictionary is so inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/111 "2013-08-08T21:02:44Z")
Coming back after a short walk to clarify something. Note, I did leave the OP a little wiggle room to claim he wasn’t talking about a race riot. But, by referencing a riot commonly regarded as a race riot, I can understand someone assuming that was what he was claiming. Still, assuming **Bricker** is correct, this was not a riot about the case. If the OP had put in an option that there would be a riot but it would not actually be related to the case, I’d have probably voted for that. There are always some groups that will take the opportunity of a protest to start a riot. But, given the options, the no-riot choice made the most sense. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/112 "2013-08-08T21:04:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, not remotely. This riot appears to be related to Surf Week. You’re a riot. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221/113 "2013-08-09T14:32:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Then it doesn’t fit the OP, so what’s all the fuss about? > > And, yes, assuming a RACE riot by the race you are not a part of is racism. The entire implication is that black people are so inferior that they, unlike white people, will riot over it. > > And will people ever realize that it doesn’t matter if it winds up being true? Just like it doesn’t matter if that black guy really was a rapist if the reason why you avoided him was because he was black. The _a priori_ assumption that black people will riot because of a verdict they don’t like is racist. > > Not that this matters, anyways, as this wasn’t about Martin and wasn’t a race riot. It doesn’t fit the OP. So I am perfectly fine in predicting no riots even if you call this a riot. > > And, yes, I personally had always assumed that a riot meant at least two different groups being involved. I find it odd that the definition in the dictionary is so inclusive. I agree completely that the assumption is racist. The question I believe is still up for discussion is: was it also true? (See my David Duke scenario in post 79). I pointed to the US Surfing Open riots to show the type of disturbance that is called a “riot” in other circumstances. If a disturbance of this type is uncontroversially called a riot, then I argue readers should accept that the Martin-related protests that turned violent are also, fairly, called riots. In other words, I am arguing that a No True Scotsman fallacy is being applied to disturbances – they are “riots” unless they are related to the Zimmerman verdict. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-zimmerman-is-found-not-guilty-will-there-be-rioting/663221.md?page=5)