I’ve never, ever heard of this. It takes away all the fun of being able to laugh at your girlfriend when she lurches the car forward trying to start it. In any event, no manual I’ve ever driven has had this (that I’ve known about). I’ve never owned one like it.
I wouldn’t like it. I like that “being able to wind a dud car out of danger with the starter” ability. It’s just another dumbing down in the name of safety, and I think here any safety gain is traded off in an equivalent loss. The lowest common denominator of idiot drivers spoils things once again. You should simply KNOW not to start in gear with your foot off the clutch. I get in a manual, and my foot is on the clutch before my arse has hit the seat. Seatbelt on, turn the key, jam the stick into neutral and back again to make sure its in first… It’s a hard-coded ritual. I don’t think I’ve lurched a car forward since I was learning to drive.
I don’t know what part of the auto repair industry you’ve had experience with, but I’ve been an auto repair professional for over 30 years and I’ve never heard a clutch switch called a neutral safety switch.
Back to the OP, all modern Asian and American cars that I know of have a clutch switch to prevent the starter cranking without the clutch depressed. I believe I first saw these in Asian cars in the 70’s and in American cars in the 80’s.
I’m less familiar with European cars, but I don’t recall any with a clutch switch.
Some Renaults in the 70’s had a manual transmission neutral switch. Yes, the manual transmission had to be in neutral in order for the starter to operate. It was not a well-received idea, and I’m pretty sure they stopped doing that after a few years.
Yes, you’re right, of course. I could only tell by reading the manual, or by putting my ex in the driver’s seat (I think there are still dents in the garage door).
Even with the older automatics I’ve owned, all they ever had was a switch to only permit starting in P or N, which I think has been around since the dawn of time. When I borrowed a friend’s '94 Mazda, that was the first time I’d ever experienced things like having to press the brake pedal to start, or having to put the car into Park to remove the key. It was really annoying. Coming to the SDMB, I hear people talking of these things going back many decades. For some reason, they were not fitted to models (local, US, or Asian) sold in this country. Not until recently, anyway.
Ranger between Gary T and myself make that over 70 years in the auto repair business (part of the time for me was as a parts guy) and neither of us has heard of a clutch switch on a manual called a neutral safety switch. I’m gonna need a cite here.
I agree with Gary that the Asians got the switches first, and then the Americans. Europeans were last and I can name car makes that did not have them by the start of the ninetys.
A little side note, when I first started in this business, I went to do an oil change on a 68 Camaro 6 cylinder with a 3 speed trans (column shift) I could not get the key out of the ignition. I had to call the customer. Turns out, the trans had to be in reverse to remove the ignition key. Only time I have ever seen that.
Many decades? A little over one. Back in the eighties there was a problem with unintended acceleration with some cars in the US (Audi among others) After much research and many lawsuits it turns out people were stepping on the wrong damn pedal, and there was nothing wrong with the car.
So in the early 90s the car makers came up with a system that you had to step on the brake to remove the car from park. Hard to step on the gas thinking it is the brake if your foot is on the brake to start with. Not surprisingly runaway car complaints have dropped to zero.
As far as putting it in park, this is a cable system that prevents you from removing the key and walking away unless the car is in park. this prevents the more brain dead among the population from leaving a car to roll away and hurt someone.
I have never seen an automatic that required a brake pedal input to start the car, but I guess it is possible.
I stand corrected. Thanks. Fuzzy memory of older threads on here.
Ze brain, she no work this morning. Screwed up again, I have. The brake input is required to shift the selector out of the Park position. '94 Mazda 323 sedan.
The previous Volvo XC does something similar. You have to engage the parking brake and put the selector to P to remove the key. I believe the latest XC has a proximity key.
I’ve always been in the habit of puting cars into neutral and then starting them with the clutch out. I’ve never come across one that wouldn’t start. I also used to start a Toyota HiAce in second with the clutch out just for shits and giggles (it just started up and headed out, not good for the starter no doubt.)
The key aspect of Rick’s story was that the car had a manual transmission, and it’s rare to have an key-removal interlock with them. What you describe is such an interlock on a car with an automatic transmission, which is quite common.
I do that sometimes. The only reason I normally don’t is out of habit. The manual that came with my Corolla told be not to do it, but I noticed no difference. I guess the rationale is that leaving the clutch out means there’s the weight of a few extra parts that the starter has to rotate, but I doubt it’s a big deal.
Is it common for Europeans to not put the clutch in to start the car? I had a friend over from Ireland for my wedding and he borrowed my car. I’ve always been told to depress the clutch. Since I had driven to work and left the car running he took it to the stores. He calls me later telling me my battery is dead. Turns out he was told never to depress the clutch as it’s bad form.
Also do the modern cars not start if you push them? My Escort will no problem, but I’ve had other people tell me thiers will not. I know it’s not good, but I have done it.
First car I got with a safety switch on the clutch annoyed the hell out of me, though it was possibly pointing out a bad habit. I kept not starting and warning me when I DID have the clutch depressed. It seems for years I’ve been hopping into vehicles and simultaneously depressing the clutch and turning the key, managing to get the clutch to the floor a split second ahead of the starter. The safety switch didn’t like it, and I had to retrain myself not to turn the key until I was finished depressing the clutch.
I am a parts man for chrysler and all of our vehicles that have a stick including the mitsubishi models use a switch on the clutch pedal. It is called a clutch switch or clutch interlock switch. I did however , own a 62 ford van that had no such switch, either on the clutch pedal or shifter mechanism.
The 2001 Pontiac Grand Am that I drive came with one of those too. Couldn’t remove the key unless it was in Reverse (presumably, I’m guessing, to help ensure that people didn’t hop their cars into the garage door, or into a person helping them jump start the car).
That said, at some point, the darned thing just stopped working. Now I can take the keys out regardless of what gear it’s in, but I put it in Reverse just the same out of habit. Also, my car does not start unless I push the clutch down, it doesn’t seem to care whether I put the clutch down before or after I turn the key. And, after an early experience which resulted in skid marks in my parents’ driveway before I had learned how to drive stick, I always have my foot on the brake as well when I start :smack:
I work at various auto auctions, primarily as a starter, and occasionally a lane leader.
What we are talking about here is starting maybe 200 cars up within a couple hours. FAST FAST FAST. Start up, go to the next car, start up, go to the next car start up etc etc for 200 cars as fast as you can. All that counts is speed. You do NOT want to stop an auto auction due to your own incompetence at starting cars.
We have gotten used to clutch switches. Too used to them maybe. Every once in a while starting a car up quickly reaching through the window and not realizing it is a stick shift, and not realizing that it is an OLD stick shift with no clutch switch. ------------
==========and that sucker starts in gear and takes off and you have to chase it down and stop it before it kills someone is------
Actually it is a little more involved than starting up 200 plus cars in 2 hours.
It is starting up the cars, rolling down the drivers side window, setting the AC to lowest temp setting and highest fan setting and recirculate, ---------and if it is dark (which it usually is since most auto auctions are night auctions) turning the headlights on.
And many times auto auction cars are not “nice” cars. They can be old and abused and feisty, need a jump start, or in worst case scenario-------have to be pushed through the auction. (is probably why they are at the auction)
(But most cars at a respectable auction are really nice cars. It is the 10% that are real dogs that kill you. -------and those dogs are always there. )
I used to have an 85 escort that I bypassed the clutch switch on. I would always leave the car in nuetral so I would start it without checking most of the time. If the car was driven by a mechanic they would usually leave it in gear, occasionally I would forget I was not the last one to drive the car and try to start it in gear. Of course the escort is a low powered car but I neve moved more than a foot or two before I relized what happened and shut off the starter.
Every manual I have seen in the US required pusing the clutch down to start it.