Ignorance-fighting etymological tidbit: what "decimate" really meant in ancient Rome

As proven by the > and < signs. The mathematical statement “2 < 4” is read as “two is less than four”. Not, “two is fewer than four”.

Not disagreeing, but maybe quibbling or seeking a distinction that might or might not be a difference …

In the domain of the reals I think 2 < 4 is unequivocally “2 is less than 4”.

I’ll argue, with just a little bit of tentative conviction that in the domain of the integers I think 2 < 4 is unequivocally “2 is fewer than 4”.

The problem in English is that the word “two” or the numeral “2” doesn’t contain type information like it would if it was a declared variable or constant in a strongly typed computer programming language.

Does he give his credentials? Not everyone calling themself an expert on YT is one.

Does the guy that wrote the thing you quoted give his credentials?

Then I guess we’re done here. Do what you will. I will continue the other way.

Not that I particularly have a dog in this fight (the less vs fewer one, not those goddamn ignoramuses saying “literally decimate” :wink: ) but I do listen to that guy on occasion so I looked it up.

Turns out he’s a Germany based former BBC journalist not an academic…

TBF I didn’t watch a 23-minute video to get to the one part of interest.

Language evolves. I rather like getting rid of the phony Latinization of a Germanic language so beloved by old-school grammarians and fully embrace the gender-neutral “they” instead of “he/she.” But I see no reason to discard this particular rule.

It isn’t a rule. And gender-neutral “they” has been around a long time. It’s older than modern English itself.

Merriam-Webster cites the guideline to one Robert Baker in the late 1700s. His book on the English language is available online should anyone care to pick the relevant portion.

It’s pretty well established that the “rule” about the usage of less and fewer had its origin in a man named Robert Baker in his 1770 book Reflections on the English Language. Baker was very clear that he was giving his opinion about how less and fewer should be used, with terms like “I should think” and “appears to me.” For some reason people have converted this suggestion into an inviolable rule.

It’s not, and never has been, a rule of English. People don’t do it organically, and the very fact that speakers have to keep being reminded of it ought to prove that it’s not a natural feature of English.

Indefinite singular “they” is ancient. Definite singular “they” is new.

But it’s what actual speakers of the language actually use, so despite being new, it’s not wrong.

The spin-off show House of Ashur also had the main character come back to life and kill a Julius Ceaser who looked more like a distant relative of Jaime Lannister than the traditional depiction of a middle-aged man with his eponymous haircut. So I wouldn’t place too much faith in historical accuracy.

And why “decimate” a unit as punishment. Might a unit get “octimated” or “septimated” if they were a bit worse?

I imagine a unit would have had to fuck up really badly if you decide to reduce its strength by a tenth. I imagine the morale of those who were left wouldn’t have been all that great either.

Oh I wasn’t saying at all that the show had any historical accuracy, just that I knew of that concept since then.

The smallest unit, the contubernium, was originally a group of ten men, led by a Decurion. Ten groups of ten made a Century, led by a Centurion. The selection was one man from each contubernium.

The organization changed over time. Later a contubernium was a group of 8 men, but still led by a Decurion. I suppose the decimation, if used, would still be 1 from each contubernium, so 1 in 8.

My Latin is primitive and long forgotten. “Decimate” is feminine, plural? I don’t know that there is actually any historical context for decimate. Abd I’m not sure that “decimation” is even a Latin or Italian word?

8 men - So like the unit needed to be told twice?

Regardless of its Latin roots, the noun ‘decimation’ appears to have preceded the verb into the English language and referred to a 10% tax/tithe. That 10% carnage for the verb showed up somewhat later.

In Latin, the word “decem” means “ten”. From that is derived the word “decimus”, which means “tenth”. From that is derived the word “decimatio”, which means “destruction of a tenth”, and the word “decimare”, which means “to remove or destroy one-tenth”. These words were used by English-speaking people to create the words “decimate” and “decimations”. It was common at the time (in early modern English) to borrow words from Latin (or sometimes classic Greek) for fancy-looking new words in English. The words were changed just enough to look like English.