# Ignorance fights back; or, december, please EXPLAIN yourself? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808 "2003-03-07T22:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/101 "2003-03-08T22:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _GIGObuster claims_ > He then proceded to give a list of reasons why he said this and cites backing them up, cites that pretty clearly show how he arived at that conclusion. What thread were you reading ? December never defended his outrageous claim in the GD thread. He merely stated, in Clintonesque fashion, that the word “support” could have two meanings, and that his take on the word was wildly at odds with accepted usage. His so-called defense, such as it is, was mounted only after he was dragged into the pit two days later. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/102 "2003-03-08T22:38:23Z")
Oops, that’s a quote from Weirddave, not GIGObuster. Sorry Gigob. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/103 "2003-03-08T23:00:42Z")
He deliniated his reasoning here, in the thread devoted to the statement. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/104 "2003-03-08T23:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > He deliniated his reasoning here, in the thread devoted to the statement. Only under duress. The evidence points to a desire on his part to skirt the issue. How very Saddam-like of him. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/105 "2003-03-08T23:33:06Z")
**zigaretten** : For one thing, I don’t profess to know a lot about Middle East politics. However, one thing I do know is that _Hitler’s Pope_ is not exactly a credible source. I also know that **december** has made a huge shitfit about how any slight criticism of Israel=anti-semitism. I am pointing out that perhaps I could turn around and say that criticism of the Vatican=anti-Catholicism. Although it doesn’t. I am well aware that the Vatican is FAR from perfect. However, you cannot doubt John Paul II’s experience in world affairs. Despite what Reagan-fellators like **december** and **Brutus** will tell you, the Pope was second only to Gorbachev in bringing about the fall of communism. Quite frankly, I am SICK of his shit. I am tired of his constant ass-kissing of the current administration, and I am sick of his blatant partisanship, which he DENIES. One can be polite and be a jackass. And that’s just it-so what if he’s _polite_? That makes it OKAY? It’s okay to be a raving homophobe, or a racist for example, if one is polite? No fucking way. If I’m stupid, so be it. I don’t believe I am, although I do know what my area of expertise is, and what it isn’t. I also know that **december** ’s mark was way out of line. And I’m not the only one to think so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/106 "2003-03-08T23:38:07Z")
Not by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/107 "2003-03-09T00:00:18Z")
I agree also **Guin**. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Oops, that’s a quote from Weirddave, not GIGObuster. Sorry Gigob. \*\* No problem **Squink**. [sub]However, for a moment I was afraid my insomnia of last night had finally made me trip to the dark side. 🙂 [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/108 "2003-03-09T00:00:26Z")
Also, **zigaretten** , if I make snarky remarks in the Pit, that’s one thing. **december** and co chose to make their’s in GD. I was making it here, so I would not hijack the thread in GD, to an argument about **december** ’s inconsistency. Also, one can be polite and still be disengenious. I believe Ted Bundy was polite and charming, they say. (And No, I am NOT comparing **december** to Bundy! I am simply pointing out that being polite doesn’t mean one isn’t a jackass) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/109 "2003-03-09T00:03:46Z")
First simulpost with **Guinastasia**! My day is done! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/110 "2003-03-09T00:16:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > I’m sure when he met up with the prime minister of the Netherlands a few years ago, that meant His Holiness was actively supporting legalised marijuana, hookers, abortion, and euthanasia. John Paul II, the Paaaaaarty Pope! Sua ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/111 "2003-03-09T00:23:27Z")
I’m just shaking my head in amazement that **december** still hasn’t been banned, given his well-known track record for troublemaking. Just an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/112 "2003-03-09T00:36:38Z")
I agree with **Guin** up to but not including the T-word. I don’t think **december** has crossed that line, and presumably this is why he’s still here and posting. Personally, I’d like to see him post more non-political stuff, preferably something demonstrating a sense of humor. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/113 "2003-03-09T02:14:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Only under duress. The evidence points to a desire on his part to skirt the issue. How very Saddam-like of him. \*\* You are an idiot. December makes a comment in original thread. Guin posts this thread demanding an explanation. _7 posts_ later december, _with his first post to this thread_, explains where he’s coming from. Where the fuck is the duress? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/114 "2003-03-09T02:47:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Where the fuck is the duress? So in your world its SOP to have to drag every jerk who makes an outrageous statement into the pit in order to get them to defend their idiocy ? He was repeatedly called on it in GD and chose to attempt to let the issue slide. The tactic didn’t work this time, and he was forced to try to justify himself here or face a drubbing. “December makes a comment” Yeah, well your Momma’s a whore, and your daddy’s a rottweiler. There’s a comment for you. What december said was a tad more offensive than that. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/115 "2003-03-09T02:50:09Z")
I agree with **Guin** completely. Just because **december** doesn’t use swear words doesn’t mean he isn’t being offensive. In the past day or two, he made the comment that started **Guin** ’s Pit thread, which is evidence enough of being offensive. That post (made in GD) was little more than a drive-by, and was offered with no supporting evidence or reasonable commentary. It can be justified, to a point, but **december** didn’t do that. How is it _not_ offensive? Yesterday, in [another GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167877), **december** makes another drive-by post, comparing Martin Luther King Jr. to George W. Bush in a snide analogy, completely ignoring the basic differences in philsophy and methods of the two men. Later in the same thread, he tries to make an analogy between Osama bin Laden and Lyndon Johnson. How is _that_ not offensive? _Also_ yesterday, in [a Pit thread he started](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167940), **december** picks on MLK again, this time making a comparison between King and Osama bin Laden, of all people. Apart from the reaction of “where does he get this shit?” that generates for me, it’s also pretty deeply offensive. King seems to be a favored target of his misplaced analogies. **december** makes a show of being reasonable, while at the same time slipping little offensive remarks like this in. It’s a consistent MO that, to me, amounts to a poster who’s trying _really hard_ to hide his hatred of those who disagree with him… but in the end, failing. He’s not at all interested in real discussion, he simply wants to criticize those he doesn’t like. When speaking German, it is possible to say “fuck you” to someone in polite word forms. This is what **december** does in his GD threads, consistently. And a side note to **Sua** … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > **John Paul II, the Paaaaaarty Pope!** That’s the best laugh I’ve had all day, man! Thanks! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/116 "2003-03-09T03:21:21Z")
I’ve read all kinds of things by **december**. Some of them make my hairs stand up straight or make my jaw drop or do both simultaneously. Big deal. He’s not a troll. He’s a poster who fights hard for his side of the aisle. That’s all I see, and I’ve been looking real hard for the past half year because of all the Pit threads dedicated to him. Fight his arguments, and leave his character out of it. He’s done nothing to justify this unrelenting wave of _ad hominem_ attacks. If anything, it merely makes those not involved question the strength of the arguments being made by those who oppose him. No way does he deserve to be banned. No way at all. And I can honestly say that I have yet to agree with him on one single thing. I have no problem with that. I’m not here to agree with others, but to debate and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/117 "2003-03-09T04:21:28Z")
I honestly believe that if December’s beleifs were the opposite of what they are he’d be considered a middle of the road poster. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/118 "2003-03-09T04:30:49Z")
**Scylla** , for that record, I’ve dragged **Stoid** into the Pit for her partisan rantings as well. :rolleyes: Oh, he’s being persecuted because he’s RIGHT WING. Shit on that. Shit all OVER that. He’s being Pitted because he’s an asshat. All right, I take back my troll comment. However, I will say that his so-called “politeness” is nothing more than disengeniousness. Remember **Wildest Bill**? **december** reminds me of a more coherant, more polite and educated **Bill**. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/119 "2003-03-09T04:47:57Z")
And remember **I am sparticus**? He was banned. He took offence to the use of the word “nigger” in a thread even though virtually everybody knew that the use of the word was appropriate for the context. **I am sparticus** decided then to be a jerk and take offence and insult everybody (and a moderator) because all other members were giving a “pass” to the OP for using an offensive word. By not even apologizing for writing an insult, against a peace position that should have been opposed in a different way in GD, **december** has entered that terrain. Incidentally even **sparticus** like **december** did defend his outrageous volleys, but that did not exonerate him at all for being declared a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808/120 "2003-03-09T05:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*So in your world its SOP to have to drag every jerk who makes an outrageous statement into the pit in order to get them to defend their idiocy ? He was repeatedly called on it in GD and chose to attempt to let the issue slide. The tactic didn’t work this time, and he was forced to try to justify himself here or face a drubbing. > \*\* Nu-uh, nope, sorry, you lose. This is the sdmb, we don’t allow people like you to make things up out of thin air without calling you on it. After december made his Pope statement, 3 posters responded to it, basically saying “WTF??”, to wit: “Tell me you didn’t say that”, “That’s sig material” and “the Pope does what he thinks is right”. Then you poped in and started claiming december said things that he did not say, again, to wit: > [@](#): > > Well, this hateful idiocy does mark a new low for the arguments of the pro-war faction. Now one persons opinion on a tangental subject are the opinions of the entire pro-war crowd. Tell me, is that brush wide enough to paint the sidewalk on both sides of the street at the same time? > [@](#): > > Where you thinking of this as just another throwaway remark that you could use to rile your opponents, and then move on to more convincing “legalistic” bullshit whilst they’re still stunned by your remarks? I’ll give you a pass on this one because at the time december was continuing discussion about the subject of the thread, not getting bogged down in tangents. It is worth noting that the _very next time it was mentioned in that thread_(By Guin, informing december of the existance of this thread), december came over hear and explained his position > [@](#): > > I’m not catholic, and I don’t even like the pope much, but to dismiss him as a murderer is about the most dishonest, self-serving garbage I’ve ever seen on this board. Listen up, sweetheart, and try, just try, to let a fact or two filter through your rightious indignation. _Nowhere did december say that the Pope is a murderer_. Go back and read it for yourself. He never said that. **YOU** are the one who said “december said the Pope is a murderer”, all he said was that the Pope supported regimes that had killed Jews, a charge he has backed up. Hmmm. Now I wonder which party involved stands closer to banning, december for disagreeing with the liberal adgenda which many people want to mislabe as trolling, or you who have clearly broken the rule "don’t atribute quotes to someone that they didn’t say. Now that we’ve examined the nonexistant “accuracy” of your take on the statement in question, let’s look at your latest charge: December was “repeatedly called on the issue and he attempted to let it slide” and only replied “Under duress”. Unfortunately for you, an examination of the facts supports neither charge. He didn’t try to “let anything slide” because nobody made anything other than snide comments about the statement (Except for you. As we have seen, you lied and tried to put words december didn’t say into his mouth) UNTIL Guin pitted him. As soon as that happened, he responded. No duress here, no attempt to let things slide. Again, all we have is another lie by you, I’m not sure why, maybe you’re so lonely down in your basement, dizzy from the odor of hundreds of jizz stained kleenex surrounding your computer, the bitter legacy of nightly porn surfing, that you are willing to say anything trying to get “in” with the december bashers. If you’ve never been part of a group before you won’t believe me, but it’s just not worth slandering someone you’ve never met just for the illusion that you “fit in” somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-fights-back-or-december-please-explain-yourself/159808.md?page=7)