# Ignorance, hatred, stupidity ruin cultural awareness day at my son's school. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289 "2015-01-30T00:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/61 "2015-01-30T15:44:22Z")
She didn’t just wear salwar kameez. She stood in front of the classroom, pointed to India on a map, talked a little bit about India, and what it was like to come over here, answered questions, and distributed some Indian food. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/62 "2015-01-30T15:48:19Z")
My point is that it sounds like she was talking about India and Indian culture rather than Hinduism _per se_. Obviously the two are pretty closely linked, but that seems quite different to what the kids at the OP’s school were doing (not that I have a problem with that either.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/63 "2015-01-30T15:51:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Schools should not be celebrating cultures that treat women as second class citizens, believe outright lies about how the world works, and want to attack and kill people based on their beliefs or skin colour. I agree that we should not celebrate cultures that [treat women as second class citizens](http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination), [believe outright lies about how the world works](http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx), and [want to attack and kill people based on their beliefs or skin colour](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/arab-muslim-poll_n_5628919.html). It’s good to hear your agreement. [edit: the last one might be a stretch–but it’s a stretch for you, too, so we’re good!] ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/64 "2015-01-30T16:09:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > so you’d be ok with catholics coming into a public school and explaning the need for confession and/or communion? I know this will shock you, but there are many Catholics _already in_ public schools. Of course, you probably attended Brother Billy Bob’s Bible Academy. (And don’t many Protestant denominations do some version of Communion?) Actually, I think details of religious doctrine ought to be saved for Comparative Religion classes. But _hijab_ is an obvious item of clothing–a combination of religion, ethnicity & personal (or family) preference. Discussing it on “cultural awareness” day sounds just fine–as did the other programs. This thread demonstrates that there remains a great deal of ignorance to fight. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/65 "2015-01-30T16:12:09Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > You don’t think the Hijab is oppressive, do you? I think it can be. But so can face make-up, high heals, bathing suits, uncovered hair when person whose head it’s attached to prefers it covered, etc. are also oppressive and people have been fired from jobs and suffered vicious harassment for their refusal to wear or un-wear such items in the United States. I keep that in mind when thinking about the Hijab. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/66 "2015-01-30T16:20:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I agree that we should not celebrate cultures that [treat women as second class citizens](http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination), [believe outright lies about how the world works](http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx), and [want to attack and kill people based on their beliefs or skin colour](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/arab-muslim-poll_n_5628919.html). It’s good to hear your agreement. > > [edit: the last one might be a stretch–but it’s a stretch for you, too, so we’re good!] Not so much a “stretch” as “irrelevant”, unless you think it says anything about killing people for their beliefs or skin color. [Here](http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/05/23/where-terrorism-finds-support-in-the-muslim-world/)’s one that is more to the point. (Your first cite has been fairly extensively [debunked](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2411/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work), but I think you get the point.) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/67 "2015-01-30T16:29:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > (Your first cite has been fairly extensively [debunked](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2411/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work), but I think you get the point.) That “debunking” is rather less emphatic than you seem to be implying. > [@](#): > > Some research suggests that when women behave as men do–not having babies, mainly–the income gap largely disappears. If so (I won’t claim the matter has been definitively settled), the question facing women is a stark one: What do you want, kids or cash? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/68 "2015-01-30T16:30:25Z")
Good lord, did some of you people never have the Jewish kid come in with a menorah and talk about lighting candles and then you played dreidel and ate latkes in school? How on earth is this any different? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/69 "2015-01-30T16:39:00Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Good lord, did some of you people never have the Jewish kid come in with a menorah and talk about lighting candles and then you played dreidel and ate latkes in school? How on earth is this any different? I happened to be in my daughter’s kindergarten class about a month ago when our friends were there doing exactly that. I ate the hell out of some latkes. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/70 "2015-01-30T16:55:45Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Teaching about something isn’t the same as advocating for it. And teaching about other cultures helps foster understanding - you may not like religion, but the freedom to worship is enshrined in our culture and Constitution. > > I wouldn’t want someone to come into my kids’ schools and lead a prayer or preach, but I’m fine with discussions about religious culture. Silence betokens consent. The school is giving their tacit approval to this kind of thing, claiming that all religions (which are choices, remember) are essentially equally valid, and that this extends to their cultural practices. Religions also make claims on history, science, and the like, and these claims are not equally valid when they clash with reality. All religions are wrong, to varying degrees, speaking of fighting ignorance. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > We’re not talking about anyone “coming into” public schools. We’re talking about a student who was already enrolled in a school, explaining her cultural practices in what I gather was a “show and tell” kind of way. I’d be okay with any student explaining any of his/her cultural or religious practices: “This is what we do, and how/why.” To forbid it would be censorship and promoting ignorance. No, students definitely should learn about religions, but not with the school spreading the message that such crutches are still necessary, if they ever were! > [@AnaMen](#): > > Having observed Muslims insisting their 9-year-old daughters wear the hijab while the children objected and complained, I despise the sight of this head covering. Yes, I understand that the wearer often wears it of their own free will, meaning they are not directly forced to do so, but it’s a reflection of the success of their brainwashing, which makes it more disturbing to me, not less. Same here. I read a local news story once about a private Muslim school where the girls are all not allowed to encounter boys, and where they draw pictures of themselves as little angels, complete with halos, and then they draw pictures of non-Muslim girls as caricatured whores. The implicit (and sometimes explicit) slut-shaming goes far beyond just the hijab, and spreads into all kinds of other things that promote ignorance, backwardness, and lead to a frustrated society that really just needs to chill out, play some music, and get laid. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Hey kids, who wants to be audited? Here, hold these soup cans. Say, can you get access to your parents’ banking information?” If all religions are equal, and deserving of respect, then yeah, I would love to see the Scientologists try this. > [@Anaamika](#): > > You know, when I was a child, my mom dressed up in a salwar kameez and came to school with me and talked a little bit about Hindu culture. We weren’t pushing our religion! To a roomful of Christians? It just makes the kids a little bit more culturally sensitive. It makes them aware that there are other ways to live. > > I knew about Catholicism and Christianity from an early age. I am immersed in it for heaven’s sakes! It was nice to get a chance to share a little of my culture. > > I had lots of Muslim friends. Some of them were innocent young girls. I hope their daughters are not being abused or picked on or tormented just because they happened to be born Muslim. Nobody is born Muslim, they are just the children of Muslim parents. Everyone is born an atheist, until (usually) parents put mythology and superstition into their minds. > [@Zsofia](#): > > Good lord, did some of you people never have the Jewish kid come in with a menorah and talk about lighting candles and then you played dreidel and ate latkes in school? How on earth is this any different? I did have this sort of thing happen, and it’s pretty benign, but I would not feel the same way about Ultra-Orthodox types coming in and justifying their backwardness with the tacit approval of school authorities. Remember, while much of the opposition to Islamization in Europe comes from the chauvinist Right, quite a bit comes from the feminist/LGBTQ Left. The state should not criminalize religion per se, and vigilantes should not be picking on children (who, let’s remember, are generally brainwashed into false consciousness by their parents), but superstition should be disapproved of and discouraged. I wonder if the presentation mentioned Habib Bourguiba, first leader of independent Tunisia, who declared the veil an “odious rag” and thoroughly discouraged it? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/71 "2015-01-30T16:57:15Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I ate the hell out of some latkes. People can curse me for egregious and offensive cultural appropriation…but oh my, latkes with bacon are the _best thing in the world._ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/72 "2015-01-30T17:02:19Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I did have this sort of thing happen, and it’s pretty benign, but I would not feel the same way about Ultra-Orthodox types coming in and justifying their backwardness with the tacit approval of school authorities. So…Haredi are backward, but liberal Jews are not? Or are they just a little bit backward? How about Reform? Conservative? Where do you draw the “backward” line? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/73 "2015-01-30T17:07:02Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > That would be difficult in Christian America because that describes a substantial portion of Christians. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I agree that we should not celebrate cultures that [treat women as second class citizens](http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination), [believe outright lies about how the world works](http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx), and [want to attack and kill people based on their beliefs or skin colour](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/arab-muslim-poll_n_5628919.html). It’s good to hear your agreement. > > [edit: the last one might be a stretch–but it’s a stretch for you, too, so we’re good!] My post was supposed to mean that schools shouldn’t be teaching Christian bigotry either, and to acknowledge that it’s not likely to happen in many parts of America. Or Europe, or the rest of the world. I’m not specifically anti-Islam, that’s why I attempted to compare the things I dislike about it to equivalent things in Christianity. It’s also a Christian teaching that women should cover their heads, at least in some circumstances, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/74 "2015-01-30T17:08:17Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > they happened to be born Muslim. No one is born a religion. They are indoctrinated into it. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/75 "2015-01-30T17:09:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not saying ban it. I’m saying that the individuals who wear it through choice should think again, and that they should be horrified by what it represents, and embarrassed to wear it. It’s not about personal modesty - if it were, the style of the covering wouldn’t matter. White dude tells brown woman how to feel about something. News at 11. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/76 "2015-01-30T17:14:29Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So…Haredi are backward, but liberal Jews are not? Or are they just a little bit backward? How about Reform? Conservative? Where do you draw the “backward” line? Yes, they’re just a little bit backward, for the most part. I draw the line where it starts having serious negative consequences, whether the practitioners realize it or not. Oppressive garments in the summer heat is one example. The highly-successful sex-ed programs in The Netherlands are sometimes tripped up a bit these days by their imported Religious Right. That’s another example. People often say that all these cultural practices are fine, so long as they are not forced on others, but what about the forcing that goes on within the family? I really, really feel for kids trapped in those scenarios, and conversely I fear those who swallow the indoctrination so thoroughly that they are essentially androids. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/77 "2015-01-30T17:15:24Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > White dude tells brown woman how to feel about something. News at 11. Are you saying all Muslim women are brown? That’s pretty racist. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/78 "2015-01-30T17:16:51Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > White dude tells brown woman how to feel about something. News at 11. Race need not have anything to do with it. Ayaan Hirsi Ali would say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/79 "2015-01-30T17:19:12Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > White dude tells brown woman how to feel about something. News at 11. Yep. And the problem with that is what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/80 "2015-01-30T17:32:35Z")
> [@Cestrian](#): > > Secular muslims [given a choice] do NOT wear the hijab. Really, go to Turkey, as one example, and have a look. > Some (but by no means all) Islamic cultures force all women to wear the hijab (or niqab or burqa) irrespective of whether the woman is “secular”. > > The whole concept of secular muslim plus oppressive clothing is somewhat oxymoronic. Maybe it is maybe it isn’t. I doubt that you have polled every last hijab wearer to determine the extent to which it was forced on them. I have an idea, rather than making blanket statements about other peoples motivations, why don’t we ask them. In fact I bet we would be all better off if we really knew more about what goes through their mind when they put on the hijab. Say for example by having one of them come up in front of a class and tell us. Then if it was really a religious oppression of women we would know first hand that we were right, and if it wasn’t than our ignorance would be fought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=5)