# Ignorance, hatred, stupidity ruin cultural awareness day at my son's school. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289 "2015-01-30T00:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/81 "2015-01-30T17:41:55Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Yes, they’re just a little bit backward, for the most part. I draw the line where it starts having serious negative consequences, whether the practitioners realize it or not. Oppressive garments in the summer heat is one example. The highly-successful sex-ed programs in The Netherlands are sometimes tripped up a bit these days by their imported Religious Right. That’s another example. > > People often say that all these cultural practices are fine, so long as they are not forced on others, but what about the forcing that goes on within the family? I really, really feel for kids trapped in those scenarios, and conversely I fear those who swallow the indoctrination so thoroughly that they are essentially androids. I get that. But…well, _all_ cultural standards and mores are indoctrinated. I teach my kid according to what I believe is best for him and for society, which I obtained in part from my sociocultural and familial indoctrination when I was young. That’s how growing up works: you’re indoctrinated by your family and your environment. So I’m still leery about where to draw the line. “Negative consequences” is a good start, but sometimes–most of the time–seeing the consequences as negative is itself a result of cultural indoctrination. My objection to eating dog or horse is a result of my upbringing (and constant reinforcement by my culture), and it’s hard for me to view doing so as a positive thing, at least on an emotional basis. But is it a negative consequence? Obviously it’s clearer when we’re talking about obviously oppressive things, like FGM or slavery (although my opposition to those is again rooted in sociocultural indoctrination). But what constitutes a negative consequence can get awfully murky. There are plenty of people who would argue that the views with which I indoctrinate my son are wrong, or even harmful. They’re wrong, of course, but the argument exists. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/82 "2015-01-30T18:41:16Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Teaching about something isn’t the same as advocating for it. And teaching about other cultures helps foster understanding - you may not like religion, but the freedom to worship is enshrined in our culture and Constitution. > > I wouldn’t want someone to come into my kids’ schools and lead a prayer or preach, but I’m fine with discussions about religious culture. Ah, but you’ve hit the nail on the head; if you teach about other cultures, this may lead to understanding. And then how on earth will you get your kids to hate those who are different? Huh? You’re infringing on my right to get my kids to hate those people. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/83 "2015-01-30T20:05:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yep. And the problem with that is what, exactly? With telling a minority how they should feel about an issue relating to that minority’s culture? Surely you can’t be that fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/84 "2015-01-30T20:12:16Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And do you know that they do that in public schools? We had a couple lessons covering Islam in high school, yes, and a Muslim student gave a presentation. No hijab, but then she never wore any. Thanks to her, I can still say the shahadah in Arabic, list the Pillars and know the whys and wherefores of the Shia/Sunni split. Which, granted, is about as useful as trigonometry in my daily life, but still. A little knowledge is **always** superior to no knowledge. And of course, now that I’m studying medieval history, we go in a little deeper than a show and tell :p. > [@](#): > > Our district doesn’t have a specific World Religions class, but the kids get quite a bit of it in World Culture in 9th grade and then World History in 10th. Because in order to understand History you need context. And for most of History, religion plays a huge role - you can’t ignore the Council of Trent or Martin Luther and understand European History - nor can you ignore Islam and understand Middle Eastern History Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/85 "2015-01-30T20:15:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That’s an improvement. Right after 9/11 a number of Sikhs were attacked for wearing turbans, which clearly meant they were terrorists. A Sikh man in Arizona was killed.☹ ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/86 "2015-01-30T20:16:38Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > With telling a minority how they should feel about an issue relating to that minority’s culture? Surely you can’t be that fucking stupid. Oh boy. Just wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/87 "2015-01-30T20:41:23Z")
Honestly, it’s hard for me to keep track of who the terrible people are on here. Except for the really egregious ones like **Starving Artist** , I don’t usually notice. I can’t even remember which was the one that basically bragged about raping his friend’s girlfriend - I want to say **Shagnasty** , maybe because it seems appropriate, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/88 "2015-01-30T20:52:45Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > A Sikh man in Arizona was killed.☹ And some were beaten in Brooklyn. There was a woman in my critique group around then who wrote a story about it. She was understandably very upset by the hatred that came out of some good old average Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/89 "2015-01-30T20:56:40Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I know this will shock you, but there are many Catholics _already in_ public schools. Of course, you probably attended Brother Billy Bob’s Bible Academy. (And don’t many Protestant denominations do some version of Communion?) > > Actually, I think details of religious doctrine ought to be saved for Comparative Religion classes. But _hijab_ is an obvious item of clothing–a combination of religion, ethnicity & personal (or family) preference. Discussing it on “cultural awareness” day sounds just fine–as did the other programs. > > This thread demonstrates that there remains a great deal of ignorance to fight. This may shock you, but in the schools around where I live there are a lot more Hindus than Catholics. When I was a kid no one came in with a menorah or latkes - but we Jews were like 80% of the class. The point is that it is great to have any kid who is a minority in a particular class have a chance to explain his or her culture to the others. Not only for the benefit of the kid, but because a lot of the majority kids probably have questions about the culture they have never asked. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/90 "2015-01-30T20:57:32Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I get that. But…well, _all_ cultural standards and mores are indoctrinated. I teach my kid according to what I believe is best for him and for society, which I obtained in part from my sociocultural and familial indoctrination when I was young. That’s how growing up works: you’re indoctrinated by your family and your environment. > > So I’m still leery about where to draw the line. “Negative consequences” is a good start, but sometimes–most of the time–seeing the consequences as negative is itself a result of cultural indoctrination. My objection to eating dog or horse is a result of my upbringing (and constant reinforcement by my culture), and it’s hard for me to view doing so as a positive thing, at least on an emotional basis. But is it a negative consequence? > > Obviously it’s clearer when we’re talking about obviously oppressive things, like FGM or slavery (although my opposition to those is again rooted in sociocultural indoctrination). But what constitutes a negative consequence can get awfully murky. There are plenty of people who would argue that the views with which I indoctrinate my son are wrong, or even harmful. They’re wrong, of course, but the argument exists. It helps when stances are based on logic, reason, and empirical evidence, not “God said so.” I get so frustrated when ostensibly/otherwise progressive people decide to kowtow to sexism/homophobia/sex-negativity (which has real, tangible, negative consequences) because it’s tied to some minority’s religion. Again, religion is a choice. It’s not race. I remember seeing an article one time in Parade which had some selection of diverse youth voices, and some shrouded girl was talking about how “there is so much pressure on girls to wear revealing clothing”, as if her odious rag was the only alternative… plus, what’s with the shaming? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/91 "2015-01-30T21:04:23Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Good lord, did some of you people never have the Jewish kid come in with a menorah and talk about lighting candles and then you played dreidel and ate latkes in school? How on earth is this any different? Nope ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/92 "2015-01-30T21:32:10Z")
“I’m sorry hon, I know it’s cultural awareness day, but you can’t share your culture; you see, you’re _oppressed_.” ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/93 "2015-01-30T21:35:38Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > My son attends the #1 high school school in the state for diversity (cultural, ethnic, and socio-economic). It is located in one of the top 10 diverse zip codes in the whole country. - Sacramento?\* Really? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/94 "2015-01-30T22:58:38Z")
Yep, 94203 – five different numerals represented in five digits. Pretty diverse, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/95 "2015-01-30T23:43:18Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > - > > Sacramento?\* Really? 😕 Yes, the 95834 neighborhood of Sacramento is. We are #10 on this [list](http://www.forbes.com/sites/trulia/2012/11/13/finding-diversity-in-america/), and #1 on this [one](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-most-diverse-zip-codes-in-america-2012-11#95834-south-natomas-sacramento-1). These lists are both a couple years old, but I don’t think much has changed since 2012. This is for the neighborhood/zip code, not the entire metro area. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/96 "2015-01-30T23:43:19Z")
Some people in this thread are disgusting. “It’s not OK to learn about other people’s culture” That’s literally what you are saying. Learning about other cultures is not OK? Really? We’re not asking you to agree with these practices. We’re not asking you to endorse them. We’re asking you to have some tiny awareness of what other people are like. And even that is apparently too much for a good number of people. There’s a good reason for the “ugly American” stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/97 "2015-01-31T00:26:16Z")
I thought of an experience we had, I guess it was middle school. We had a Maasai man come in and talk about himself and his culture. Some of which is pretty unambiguously considered “wrong” in the west, in particular lion hunting and female circumcision, both of which he talked briefly about. Does that mean that it’s wrong to have him talk to us? That it’s wrong to have us learn about his culture, which yes, has some norms very different than our own? Of course not. It was a great experience for us, and (at least as far as I know), nobody complained about it. We did have Muslims talk to us about their religion and culture. Those talks were actually pretty boring, pretty much just a canned powerpoint, I think the same one both times. We had an orthodox Jew come talk to us both about her beliefs, but also about her stance on the Israeli conflict, which is obviously something very controversial. In that case the teacher did point out that many people had different viewpoints. Learning about someone else’s culture and values is never a wrong thing. I guess I’m glad that the fuckwads in this thread never got word of what we were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/98 "2015-01-31T02:07:53Z")
I have no problem with “Comparative Religion” or “Comparative Cultures” classes in public schools. I don’t think they’d merit a full quarter or semester, but I can see them filling a week or two in a World History or Geography course. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/99 "2015-01-31T02:10:36Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I know some people do describe themselves as “secular Muslims,” but what do other people actually take this to mean? If you don’t believe the beliefs, how are you a Muslim? I assume the same way you can be a [secular Jew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_secularism). ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/100 "2015-01-31T02:12:48Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Are you saying all Muslim women are brown? That’s pretty racist. Well now, we don’t know what **black rabbit** looks like. She could be part of the same recessive gene-pool as I. \*\*\*Everybody \*\*\*is browner than me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=6)