# Ignorance, hatred, stupidity ruin cultural awareness day at my son's school. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289 "2015-01-30T00:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/141 "2015-02-01T03:01:42Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > People can convert, but many Jewish people still refuse to accept them as “real Jews.” Who–and where–would these “many Jewish people” happen to be? The experiences of people I’m acquainted with who have converted has been that they’re treated by other Jews as though they’re Jewish. One would expect that treatment to be be because the act of conversion makes them Jewish. Now, if you’re talking about Jewish authorities in Israel refusing to recognize a particular type of conversion to Jewish, such as converting from Christianity to Reform Judaism, that’s a different issue and it’s dishonest to claim otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/142 "2015-02-01T03:57:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Who–and where–would these “many Jewish people” happen to be? The experiences of people I’m acquainted with who have converted has been that they’re treated by other Jews as though they’re Jewish. One would expect that treatment to be be because the act of conversion makes them Jewish. > > Now, if you’re talking about Jewish authorities in Israel refusing to recognize a particular type of conversion to Jewish, such as converting from Christianity to Reform Judaism, that’s a different issue and it’s dishonest to claim otherwise. What do you want, names? If it has become rare for a Jewish person to claim that it’s a race, I’m delighted. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/143 "2015-02-01T05:44:47Z")
Like it or not everyone, students and teachers, is going to eventually share their religion. Even if that religion is new age or even atheism. It can be very subtle. Maybe jewelry, maybe talking about an event, maybe playing a song, Maybe showing a movie. Maybe a poster on the wall. Only a person well versed in other religions can often point it out. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/144 "2015-02-01T06:04:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m a Jew. Then I apologize. I suppose it’s understandable that American and Israeli Jews see Judaism in different ways. America, with its myriad competing Christian sects, encourages the point of view that religion is purely a matter of faith. It makes sense that American Jews would think the same way. Here in the Middle East, religion is more of tribal marker, a flag you fly to show your allegiance. Believing is one aspect of being a Jew, but not the only one. and not necessarily the most important one. After all, there’s no such thing as race, scientifically speaking. It’s purely a social and political construct, and as such, if a people believe themselves a race, then they’re a race. That’s even more important in the case of Israeli Jews. After all, we have Jews from Poland, Morocco, Iran, Russia, Yemen, Ethiopia and dozens of other countries, and we’re trying to forge a nation of of them. If we decide for the sake of unity that even though we may look different, we’re all the same race, then that’s what we are. Personally, I have blonde hair and blue eyes, but I don’t think of myself as “white”. I’m Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/145 "2015-02-01T08:39:43Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Except in the most tangential way of “here’s another reason I can think of that Islam is bad, therefore we shouldn’t give it equal time.” At a GRADE SCHOOL level. Islam should get equal time in school to other religions - which is none, at least as far as promoting them goes. Be glad you live in a country\* where state schools aren’t allowed to promote religion, unlike here in the UK where they’re still compelled to. _All_ religion is necessarily false, and much of it is harmful. It’s arguable whether historically Christianity or Islam is the most harmful, but at present Islam just about takes the prize, and its attitude to women is one of the main reasons for that. - I’m assuming you’re American, feel free to correct me if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/146 "2015-02-01T09:03:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Be glad you live in a country\* where state schools aren’t allowed to promote religion, unlike here in the UK where they’re still compelled to. Well, considering that the UK has _much_ higher percentage of atheists than the US, maybe compulsory religious studies actually serves your purpose. It apparently isn’t _promoting_ religiosity when you compare the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/147 "2015-02-01T09:28:20Z")
The UK lost its faith in Flanders fields, not in the classroom. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/148 "2015-02-01T13:15:52Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > What do you want, names? > If it has become rare for a Jewish person to claim that it’s a race, I’m delighted. Perhaps some kind of cite to a study instead of what you’ve been doing lately on this board: to wit, pulling stuff out of your tuches. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/149 "2015-02-01T13:23:56Z")
By the way, AnaMen, your little stunt you just pulled here has not gone unnoticed. I specifically referred to your assertion that “many Jewish people don’t consider Jews to bed converts”. You’re moviing the goalposts, the sidelines and anything else you can. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/150 "2015-02-01T14:02:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > After all, there’s no such thing as race, scientifically speaking. It’s purely a social and political construct, and as such, if a people believe themselves a race, then they’re a race. That’s even more important in the case of Israeli Jews. After all, we have Jews from Poland, Morocco, Iran, Russia, Yemen, Ethiopia and dozens of other countries, and we’re trying to forge a nation of of them. If we decide for the sake of unity that even though we may look different, we’re all the same race, then that’s what we are. Personally, I have blonde hair and blue eyes, but I don’t think of myself as “white”. I’m Jewish. In America, I would say that the simplest definition of race is that it’s what _other people_ believe you are. If Americans think you’re black, white, something else, treat you accordingly, you ‘are’ that, in American terms. I distinguish this from ethnicity, which is more specific, has a component of ancestry, but isn’t necessarily visible unless you do things to specify and broadcast it. Occasionally people can change their race-based attitude toward particular others based on ethnic information acquired after first glance. You, **Alessan** , might be subject to this yourself, if you were to come over here, looking white like you do, but ‘actually’ being a Jew, and saying so. You’d be the beneficiary of a first-glance read of whiteness in each case, but… ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/151 "2015-02-01T14:39:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, AnaMen, your little stunt you just pulled here has not gone unnoticed. I specifically referred to your assertion that “many Jewish people don’t consider Jews to bed converts”. You’re moviing the goalposts, the sidelines and anything else you can. Where did I make this incoherent “assertion”? I have no idea what you’re trying to say here, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/152 "2015-02-01T14:40:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, AnaMen, your little stunt you just pulled here has not gone unnoticed. I specifically referred to your assertion that “many Jewish people don’t consider Jews to bed converts”. You’re moviing the goalposts, the sidelines and anything else you can. Hah! I mis-worded that. Here’s how it should have appeared: > [@](#): > > By the way, AnaMen, your little stunt you just pulled here has not gone unnoticed. I specifically referred to your assertion that “many Jewish people don’t consider converts to be real Jews”. You’re moving the goalposts, the sidelines, and anything else you can. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/153 "2015-02-01T15:16:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hah! I mis-worded that. Here’s how it should have appeared: Okay, thanks for quoting me correctly. I’m still not sure exactly what you’re trying to accuse me of, but probably nothing I care about. Suffice it to say, if a person wishes to declare themselves a member of a race, I won’t be the one to argue with them. If they insist they are not a member of a race or that no such race exists, that’s fine by me too – better, even, as I do not subscribe to the belief that one’s “race” is anything but a social construct, and that the sooner we abandon and disassemble this divisive construction the better. Religion is a choice, and thus could actually say something about the chooser. “Inherent” qualities of one’s “race” are not reliable predictors of things that matter and distract and mislead people, assigning baggage and qualities to people willy-nilly, so the less credibility they are given the better. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/154 "2015-02-01T15:32:38Z")
Look, what I addressed was your assertion that many Jews don’t consider converts to be Jewish. That has nothing to do with the blather you just posted in post #153. Do you think you can manage to focus on that for one second and answer the question put to you on that particular issue earlier? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/155 "2015-02-01T15:53:26Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Look, what I addressed was your assertion that many Jews don’t consider converts to be Jewish. That has nothing to do with the blather you just posted in post #153. > > Do you think you can manage to focus on that for one second and answer the question put to you on that particular issue earlier? I’m supposed to cite “a study” that indicates the existence of Jewish people that do not consider converts to actually be Jewish? Why would such an idiotic study exist? Anyone that would attempt to “study” something so ill-suited to this form of inquiry would be unable to procure and present any reliable data, so no, I decline this assignment. I’d give you a convert friend’s mother-in-law’s contact info so she could tell you all about it, but she’d probably like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/156 "2015-02-01T18:45:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Islam should get equal time in school to other religions - which is none, at least as far as promoting them goes. I’m actually fine with that notion, the difference between us probably lying with our views of what _promoting_ means in this context. Exploring differences at that age is a good thing. A basic knowledge of world religions _should_ be a minor academic focus at least from junior high, if not earlier. If you can enhance that with a show and tell presentation by a kid talking about some of the cultural traditions of their religion, all the better. This crosses no line for me. IMHO. YMMV. BYOB. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/157 "2015-02-01T20:08:45Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > A basic knowledge of world religions _should_ be a minor academic focus at least from junior high, if not earlier. If you can enhance that with a show and tell presentation by a kid talking about some of the cultural traditions of their religion, all the better. This. Learning about the history of world religions is important, as how people act on their beliefs influences the course of world history. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/158 "2015-02-01T23:56:49Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > More like “Your cultural practices (and not just yours) are backward and totally counter to the mission of education, and our values. The school isn’t going to endorse any of that woo, though learning about it is a good idea. You also ought to drop that nonsense; you’re in the West now, and we have too much woo as it is!” Wow, if that isn’t the most condescending bunch of bullshit I’ve heard yet. She’s not their to “endorse any of that woo”. She’s there to explain about what it’s like to be a Muslim, and if anything, educate and debunk any myths or urban legends about Islam. When I was in school, we didn’t have anything like this, but I do remember our teacher bringing in a prayer rug given to him by a college friend. > [@Steophan](#): > > Islam should get equal time in school to other religions - which is none, at least as far as promoting them goes. Be glad you live in a country\* where state schools aren’t allowed to promote religion, unlike here in the UK where they’re still compelled to. _All_ religion is necessarily false, and much of it is harmful. It’s arguable whether historically Christianity or Islam is the most harmful, but at present Islam just about takes the prize, and its attitude to women is one of the main reasons for that. > > - I’m assuming you’re American, feel free to correct me if necessary. Good luck learning anything about history, current events, society, culture, psychology, literature, etc. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/159 "2015-02-02T00:40:55Z")
Is Scientology going to get equal time? ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289/160 "2015-02-02T00:45:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wow, if that isn’t the most condescending bunch of bullshit I’ve heard yet. No, condescending bullshit is all the stuff I heard constantly growing up in that dark and backward land known as the Southern United States, where there was the constant implication that there was something wrong and missing from the life of anyone who didn’t accept all the vomit that the Christers were constantly spewing, and projecting from the backs of their cars, and every-fucking-where. Condescending bullshit is being told that there’s something wrong with me for being an atheist, rather than it being the only position that a rational human being should have. Condescending bullshit is floating in the shallow sea of ecumenicism, where all religions are somehow equal despite contradicting one another, and contradicting reality. Condescending bullshit is being told I have to respect one’s supernatural delusions, when those are _choices_, unlike all of your other choices which I am under no obligation to respect. Condescending bullshit is being told that strict gender roles are somehow liberating. Condescending bullshit is being told that gendered dress codes are OK. Condescending bullshit is being told that your dietary choices have to come from some old book, rather than empirical decisions about health and environmental impact. Condescending bullshit is being told that somehow the world’s most advanced, peaceful, egalitarian, _secular_ societies have it wrong, but societies where rape is a punishment, homosexuality is a capital crime (if rarely enforced), where the sexes are segregated, where one cannot date, etc. etc. are somehow doing it right. > [@](#): > > She’s not their to “endorse any of that woo”. She’s there to explain about what it’s like to be a Muslim, and if anything, educate and debunk any myths or urban legends about Islam. She’s not exactly a neutral source, is she? These “myths” and “urban legends” come right from the source. > [@](#): > > When I was in school, we didn’t have anything like this, but I do remember our teacher bringing in a prayer rug given to him by a college friend. > > Good luck learning anything about history, current events, society, culture, psychology, literature, etc. :rolleyes: I learned plenty about that sort of thing, and it didn’t require an explicit or even implicit message that this was necessarily correct. Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. It’s silly and, at best, outdated. Since education is one of the better antidotes to religion, its waters shouldn’t be muddied with this sort of thing. Also, for the millionth time, it doesn’t just apply to Muslims, and religion is not race. I have hope. It wasn’t that long ago that even Afghanistan had a government that was aggressively feminist and toying with state atheism, but Carter, Reagan, and the idiots in Moscow had to go ruin it. Look at Iranian society pre-Khomeini. Even divorced from religion per se, culture is a hokey fraud, in the immortal words of Johnny Rotten. Cultural relativism is a very dangerous delusion. Don’t be afraid to criticize things that are just plain wrong due to fear of being thought racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorance-hatred-stupidity-ruin-cultural-awareness-day-at-my-sons-school/711289.md?page=9)