Ignorance Wins Again (Autism and Mercury...again)

[Jackmannii]

Here’s an example of how no amount of evidence will ever be enough for a dedicated antivaxer.

I posted info about the latest study to rip apart the alleged vaccine-mercury-autism link (the one cited earlier here, showing how fast the mercury-based preservative thimerosal is cleared from the body) on a forum frequented by antivaxers. I got this response:

“Anyway, like I said before, it doesn’t have to be thimersol. I was just reading an aritcle in Mothering Magazine that was titled Is Aluminium the new Thimersol? It’s disturbing the amount of aluminium that’s in the Hep. B shot that is usually given to infants hours after birth. Those infants could be become autistic after that shot and parents would not know.”

“Aluminium”* not the answer either? Well, then it’s gotta be some other nasty thing they put in vaccines - non-mercury preservatives, monkey guts, old socks - whatever. But it’s just GOTTA be vaccines that are responsible for autism (and other bad stuff), because, well, because we HATE vaccines. And you can’t prove it isn’t so, and anyway THEY don’t want us to know. :rolleyes:
*yes, I know, it’s probably a Brit antivaxer.

[saoirse]

@Bricker

I admit I didn’t follow this show with a close eye… but are you sure?

My recollection is that Rebecca was the receptionist in the first season, and then it was revealed she’d been going to law school nights when she announced she’d passed the bar… only subsequent to that was she made a partner (and permitted to handle cases. as well). This was when new recptionist Lucy came on the scene. No?

As an aisde… I find it mildly humorous that these firms always are portrayed as “making” someone a partner; never once do they mention any buy-in or how such an expense might be financed. Are these successful firms waiving nay buy-in costs for their new “partners?” As an existing partner, I’d be pretty pissed.

I’m a little embarassed that I can answer this. She was made a partner right after the other senior attorneys were, so they didn’t really have much equity to buy. They had been on straight salary through the first season, and then the love interest declared that she wanted to be aprtner or she would leave. The two fat lawyers agreed with her, and the main character was forced to give up some control of the firm, which was some kind of issue with him.

[LavenderBlue]

@Jackmannii

Here’s an example of how no amount of evidence will ever be enough for a dedicated antivaxer.

I posted info about the latest study to rip apart the alleged vaccine-mercury-autism link (the one cited earlier here, showing how fast the mercury-based preservative thimerosal is cleared from the body) on a forum frequented by antivaxers. I got this response:

“Anyway, like I said before, it doesn’t have to be thimersol. I was just reading an aritcle in Mothering Magazine that was titled Is Aluminium the new Thimersol? It’s disturbing the amount of aluminium that’s in the Hep. B shot that is usually given to infants hours after birth. Those infants could be become autistic after that shot and parents would not know.”

“Aluminium”* not the answer either? Well, then it’s gotta be some other nasty thing they put in vaccines - non-mercury preservatives, monkey guts, old socks - whatever. But it’s just GOTTA be vaccines that are responsible for autism (and other bad stuff), because, well, because we HATE vaccines. And you can’t prove it isn’t so, and anyway THEY don’t want us to know. :rolleyes:
*yes, I know, it’s probably a Brit antivaxer.

That does not surprise me.

Mothering is a rag and the world HQ of the lunatic parenting fringe. The anti-vax forum over there is just filled with the most astonishing stupidity that often spills over on to other and saner parenting message boards. The editors of *Mothering * put Christine Maggiore on the cover as a heroine. She’s an HIV postive woman who not only does not take anti-virals for herself but did not take them for the child she gave birth to. The poor three old little girl died from untreated AIDS.

That case absolutely sickens me.

The online forums at Mothering are filled with horrifying nutters who do things like proudly brag they had an unassisted birth of triplets and were grateful that two survived. I really think they are no better than the pro-anorexia websites and should be banned on such grounds.

It is a pity because they do in fact offer of lot of common sense when it comes to a few issues such as extended breastfeeding. But that is overshadowed by what else you’ll find there.

[LilShieste]

@Jackmannii

Well, then it’s gotta be some other nasty thing they put in vaccines - non-mercury preservatives, monkey guts, old socks - whatever.

I heard somewhere that vaccines actually contain viruses! Further proof that these “doctors” want to harm our kids!

[Baldwin]

Just saw my tape of the show from Thursday. It ended with a disclaimer about being fiction, and a recommendation to check out the CDC website on autism. So, I’m sure that’ll clear everything up.

[samclem]

@Baldwin

Just saw my tape of the show from Thursday. It ended with a disclaimer about being fiction, and a recommendation to check out the CDC website on autism. So, I’m sure that’ll clear everything up.

You forgot to add a rolleyes smiley. :rolleyes:

[Campion]

This show is beyond moronic.

No 8th year associate in SF would have an office that big. It’s a partner office, and a senior partner/name partner at that. You could fit four normal associate size offices in that office. But, okay, you’re dramatizing, so we’ll let that go. (Also, we’ll accept for the sake of drama that an 8th year associate is so freaking naive as to think that all big corporations are corrupt and all little plaintiffs are angels. Real 8th year associates ought to have a much more nuanced view of the world, and would have run into plaintiffs that lie under oath, that spoliate, that extort. But I digress.)

No lawyer in a real law firm is unfamiliar with the concept of the Chinese wall. To have these senior partners acting as if they’d never heard the term is stupid.

No partners in any law firm, when approached by a senior associate who wants to represent the plaintiff in a pending lawsuit in which the associate has been representing the defendant, would spend even a fraction of a second talking about whether the plaintiff could pay their fees. Instead, the firm would say: NO. No, you may not switch sides in a pending lawsuit. No, a Chinese wall doesn’t cure the problem. No, you may not go back to your office. We will ship your belongings to you. Please leave the building for being so stupid.

HE REPRESENTED THE DRUG COMPANY IN THE EXACT SAME LAWSUIT. There is no canon of ethics that would permit him to switch sides in a litigation. (And don’t say “Chinese wall” because a Chinese wall doesn’t cure a direct conflict.)

And then that whole “report” he unethically discovered. If it’s privileged, as he said it was, he should have seen it before when he was representing the company (hence, why he would be presumptively disqualified from repping the plaintiff). And if it’s privileged, then it wouldn’t have to be produced and he’d have no ground for threatening his future father-in-law for failing to produce it. And if it’s privileged, and he didn’t immediately tell the other side he had it, he should be sanctioned.

Honestly, it’s like whoever worked on the legal parts of this purported legal drama didn’t even bother to talk to anyone who knows anything about the law. I spent most of the hour yelling at the screen because these people are so dumb. Why wouldn’t the defense have objected to his questioning of the CEO? Whether this guy immunized his daughter is irrelevant to a product liability lawsuit. None of that should have come in.

At least they got the science right. Oh, wait…

Do I believe that a jury could award $5.2 million based on no science and all emotion? Yes, I’ve seen it happen. Sometimes the appellate court makes it right. Sometimes not. It’s always a gamble. But why would you pander to an audience? Why not challenge the audience with something that would educate them?

Are we all really that dumb?

[Baldwin]

@samclem

You forgot to add a rolleyes smiley. :rolleyes:

I count on people to recognize obvious sarcasm; rolleye smilies tend to prejudice me against the user.

[mks57]

@Jackmannii

From the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia website:

Before vaccines, parents in the United States could expect that every year:

Polio would paralyze 10,000 children.

I can still remember seeing kids with braces and crutches when I was in elementary school. Every child in that school was given the new polio vaccine, and nobody complained about it. My mother has told me that many parents were scared to death that their children might catch polio at public swimming pools and other places where there were large groups of children.

[Baldwin]

@mks57

I can still remember seeing kids with braces and crutches when I was in elementary school. Every child in that school was given the new polio vaccine, and nobody complained about it. My mother has told me that many parents were scared to death that their children might catch polio at public swimming pools and other places where there were large groups of children.

Yeah; my grandmother had a shortened leg from polio; my mother had a scarred heart from rheumatic fever. Communities used to be regularly besieged by diseases that are now preventable.

[MissGypsy]

Morons who advocate non-vaccination rely on herd immunity – that is, if everybody else’s kids are immunized, then their kids are safe. That’s selfish and irresponsible.

Idiots like Jenny McCarthy, who advocate gluten-free/casein-free diets, and chelation therapy, are naïve, ill-informed, and uneducated. A diet free of wheat and dairy does not cure autism (yes, I’m glossing over the exact definitions of GF/CF to make a point.) Chelation therapy is questionable at best, and dangerous at worst.

Of course, why anyone would listen to a former MTV bimbo is beyond me… She calls her boyfriend the “autism whisperer,” because he relates to her son so well. I found that term offensive on so many levels, that I can’t even begin to elaborate.

On a more positive note, I recently read a great presentation about autism and genetic links, so I’m encouraged that someone is doing some actual research instead of piddling around with bullshit like mercury-contamination and lactose intolerance and gut flora and the MMR and flu vaccines.

[Menocchio]

@MissGypsy

On a more positive note, I recently read a great presentation about autism and genetic links, so I’m encouraged that someone is doing some actual research instead of piddling around with bullshit like mercury-contamination and lactose intolerance and gut flora and the MMR and flu vaccines.

There’s a lot of money and interest in autism and related disorders right now. So much so that some people are wonder if they’re getting too much of the pie, grant-wise.

The chelators and anti-vaccers are just the lunatic fringe of much broader autism movement. People with brains, money, and political clout are getting a lot of money to the real scientists. Alas, real science is frustratingly slow when kids are suffering.