Ignorant atheism is as vile as ignorant fundamentalism

The BBQ Pit
21

I’m ignorant and backward because I have better things to do with my time than read what I, personally feel, basically amount to faerie tales? I have zippo interest in religion. I am a historical materialist and while I can appreciate that religion has influenced art, culture, etc etc, I can understand that without the need of a theology class. I have no more love for Christianity than any other religion or even Wiccans or so-called pagans for that matter, and to be honest if I was going to learn about one of them I would want to get a fair and balanced view of all of them, but I have better and more important [to me] things to do with my time. I’m not running around being snarky and laughing at Christians, I’m not calling them names or attacking them, I’m only objecting to your opinion that I’m some kind of buck-toothed ignoramus because I have no more interest in learning about religion than I do changing the oil in my car.

To be honest, you can call me ignorant if you like, but I’m a news junkie and do have at least a shallow understanding of most subjects one might encounter in day to day life, and off all the things I’ve been called in my life by the people who’ve known me, I must say that’s the first time I’ve even been labeled as ignorant or backwards. I am apathetic and uninterested in that particular subject – which, to me – is not really any different than geometry or Physical Science 101. If religion is an interesting subject for you, as a non-believer yourself, then more power to you, but I think it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to learn about something whether they’re interested in it or not just to suit your ideas of what a non-backward and non-ignorant person should be like.

And FTR I am a news junkie, and despite my lack of knowing what a Pentecostal is, I believe I have an excellent grasp of the world political climate and why it is the way it is.

I choose not to learn to change the oil in my car because I have no desire to change the oil in my car. I am uninterested in doing it, and I can easily pay someone else to when it becomes necessary, or ask someone to show me if I eventually find a need to learn. That’s why I’m a painter, not an oil and lube guy. If I encounter a situation where I need to know what a Pentecostal is, I’ll look it up. But it will be because I’m trying to do something else, not because I have some deep-seated desire to expand my religious knowledge. And I probably won’t go out of my way to learn more than I need to, to get to the point of what I’m trying to do.

Dinsdale… I don’t watch television, I don’t have time and it’s too passive to simply watch, and too distracting to multi-task with. For what it’s worth, I don’t watch many movies for the same reason, and don’t read much except for factual research because… well, stories bore me and I feel like I’m wasting my time. Elrond, Harry Potter, Jesus… it’s all the same to me. The interest just isn’t there.

22

I didn;t use those exact words, but I do think that being proud that you don’t know something, especially as vital to human affairs as religion, is deplorable.

Pride in what you don’t know is an indefensible position. Again. it’s not that you don’t have an interest or that you don’t care, because I can’t really argue with that. It’s that you are glad and proud that you don’t know and you don’t care that makes you truly ignorant, IMO.

23

Yes, the more the better. What an assholeish thing to say. That will certainly send the debate into calmer waters. To imply someone’s disinterest in religion makes them a Reality TV watching drone is insulting and ridiculous. Ass.

24

I think you’re still missing the point, jinwicked. gobear is ranting about people who get into debates about an issue and then brag that they don’t really know what their talking about.

Are you proud of the fact that you don’t know about religion? It’s not the ignorance itself that is bad. It is the stubborn refusal to learn about a subject and still pontificate about it.

25

First of all, learn to read and learn your audience. Where did I ever say that I, personally, am ignorant about religion? You’d best be sure who you’re directing shit like that to before you do so. As it happens, I have a very strong interest in religion, attended religious school until I was 16 and continue to find gaining knowledge in others’ beliefs fascinating. But I stand by my contention that your entire OP was condescending bullshit. And I read the whole damn thing.

I completely agree that the post calling what other people choose to believe in as G-d, the “invisible man who lives in the sky” was downright rude. But so was your entire OP just as much so.

My basic understanding of religion aside, I have no grasp of any of the details surrounding Byzantine history, the Iconoclasm controversy, Western medieval history, or the Reformation, let alone the Pentecost. And in spite of a basic fascination with religion in general, I have NO INTEREST in learning about those things specifically.

I also couldn’t begin to grasp the “full meaning of Renaissance painting” because I have no knowledge of Christian hagiography and symbolism. But I love art and I love art museums and every time I go I stand in awe of the mastery as I look at the work itself, even if I don’t understand every detail about it! I read the descriptions and I almost always rent those tape players to hear about the background of certain pieces. But I don’t commit those details to memory, nor do I still have any freaking knowledge of Christian hagiography and symbolism. That does not make me a wicked, stupid idiot!

I also know jack shit about physics and I make it a point not to learn about it because the subject makes my head want to explode – LITERALLY! I have NO INTEREST IN IT whatsoever. But just because I don’t know how the world works doesn’t make me a wicked, maliciously ignorant, stupid fuck!

So once again, do not dare to believe that just because you think it’s important to know, that anyone who doesn’t know about your pet interests is wicked or stupid. At the risk of repeating myself, get off your fucking high horse. The view of you up there from down here is extraordinarily unflattering.

26

Shayna are you sure you woulnd;t be happier at the Yahoo boards because your increasingly hysterical replies certainly give that impression.

This board, the SDMB, is dedicated to eradicating ignorance, and here you are, deliberately defending ignorance, claiming that ignorance is good.

Again, one more time, it’s not that you don’t know, but that you are proud that you don’t know, that makes you genuinely ignorant.
So you have no interest in physics, fine. But don’t go strutting that you are a superior person because you don’t know anything about physics because physics fans are nerds and you aren’t a nerd. (Not that you said so, but that’s an analogue of the comments about religion)

It’s not about my pet interests, but about knowledge in general.
Please think about the content of your posts thus far.

You may find me unflattering, but I find your defense of ignorance and refusing to learn mystifying.

27

And I stand by my directive that you learn to read. I was not directing that specific quote to you, but to Dinsdale, who posted almost the same sentence word-for-word immediately above me. Therefore, that clinches nothing, as I understood your OP quite well. However, it appears that you don’t even understand your own OP, yourself!

I most certainly don’t defend people presuming to have opinions on subjects with which they are entirely unfamiliar, whether by accident or by choice. However, that is also not what you said anywhere in your entire OP! You did not call anyone out for daring to have an opinion on the Pentecost in spite of a declared lack of knowledge. You called them out for deliberately having a lack of knowledge on the subject. Thems entirely different things, my friend.

28

Is it worthy to say
“I spend my time learning things I consider important, since I do not consider religion important on anything but the broadest possible levels, I do not spend time learning religious trivia.”
“I am glad I don’t know want penticost means, because if I had spent time learning what it means, I could have spent that time better learning what quantum mechanics means.”

The above do not reflect my personal views, but my view of what someone who says “I sometimes make a point of not knowing stuff like that” is actually meaning.

29

It may have been directly replying to Dinsdale, but it was still an indirect reference to the OP. Don’t try to wriggle out of what you wrote.

That having opinions on something you know nothing about should have been inferred from the OP, but you’re right, it was not directly stated. My bad.

But you are still defending “deliberately having a lack of knowledge on the subject.” You are still proud of not knowing.

30

I get the impression that gobear would be happy if the people who are pointedly ignorant about religion would just not post their comments. There are many topics I am not interested in so I don’t waste my time reading those threads, much less posting about how little I care about it.

However, I cannot see how one can consider herself an educated person who understands the workings of her culture without a general understanding of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Dismissing these things which are at the core of our society, believe in them or not, because you are not interested in them is naive to the point of stupidity.

31

gobear, this will be my last post in this thread because you’ve made it entirely clear that you can’t read and you continue to misattribute statements and sentiments to me that I never said nor implied. I refuse to argue against points I didn’t make any further than this reply, which is just to clear up the record.

  1. I am not “defending ignorance” and nowhere did I ever “[claim] that ignorance is good.” Stop misattributing my words or my intent. I have defended people’s right not to find interesting the same subjects you do. Period.

  2. I never said anywhere that I was “proud that [ I ]don’t know” about physics. I merely used the fact that I have no interest in it to illustrate a point. Period.

  3. I most certainly never “strutted”, let alone declared myself “a superior person” to anyone. Nor did I ever say that “physics fans are nerds”, nor did I declare that I’m not one, let alone assess my comparative value based on those characteristics.

If anyone here has expressed comparative superiority, it’s you.

Have a nice day (you clearly need one).

32

“Bhagavad-gita”

God, I love that song. All 17 minutes.

33

One more time, it’s not about my personal interests. It’s about the deliberate refusal to learn because one thinks one is above a certain field of knowledge.

Moreover you did defend ignorance. You wrote “I also know jack shit about physics and I make it a point not to learn about it because the subject makes my head want to explode – LITERALLY!”] If a subject is tough, OK, if a subject is boring, fair enough, but to say that you MAKE A POINT OF NOT LEARNING is defending ignorance.

Read your previous quote again.

And I said "(Not that you said so, but that’s an analogue of the comments about religion) ". Apparently you missed that. So much for your claims of literacy.

Shayna, you are a liar or a fool, and I don’t much care which.

34

And how do you reconcile

with

and

35

Earlier today, in this thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=192131&pagenumber=4

I get "My God you’re an ass, Dinsdale.

In this thread, Zette (affectionately I’m sure) concludes her response to my remarks with a concise "Ass."

Looks like I’m on a roll! (Ass on a roll? Doesn’t sound too appetizing as a sandwich.)

Anyone know where I can find a nice comfortable saddle cheap? :stuck_out_tongue:

36

I feel the same way about people who brag about not watching TV.

37

Miller, I agree with you completely. Can’t remember having said that before. :wink:

38

It seems to me that the people who know the least are usually the ones with the strongest opinions. Why is that?

39

What I got from the OP, Shayna, was that gobear was railing against those who are ignorant of a subject, proud of that ignorance, an presume to think themselves as better people because of that lack of knowledge. Disinterest of the subject is not the argument here. Here is an example to illustrate:

"I have no interest in the <insert subject du jour here>, nor do I wish to learn about it".
That, in and of itself, is not what I believe gobear is arguing against.

"I have no interest in the <insert subject du jour here>, nor do I wish to learn about it, and I think that I am superior to all those that know about <insert subject du jour here> because of my ignorance of the subject".
That is what I believe gobear is railing against (correct me if I’m wrong, gobear). I agree with him.

40

Well, I think it’s one thing to say, “I don’t know much about X, because it’s not really my area of interest,” vs. “Well, I don’t know about Christianity, just that it sucks and I don’t want to learn anymore, because it’s stupid and not worth it.”

It’s one thing to say there’s a subject you have no interest in-we can’t study EVERYTHING. It’s quite another to say you don’t know about something, but at the same time, you think that it is stupid and bad and evil, even though you know nothing of it.

See?

“Well, I’m not very religious, and really, learning about religion doesn’t interest me in the slightest.” Okay, fine.

But then to go on and say, “Well, Buddhism is the root of all evil!” when you don’t know jackshit about it…

It’s like when Jack Chick starts slamming Catholicism. In other words, if you ARE going to slam something, LEARN about it first.

If you don’t know, don’t SLAM it.