# Ignorant Bigots Raise Racist Flag Yet Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644 "2016-07-11T12:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/21 "2016-07-11T17:57:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Strongly disagree. I think it would be an incredibly bad idea (and unconstitutional and fundamentally unAmerican) to arrest people for flying a certain flag, no matter the flag. > > Very much a free speech issue. This is the flag of an enemy nation. Why isn’t it a form of treason to fly the flag of an enemy nation? Is it because we’re no longer at war with them, or the nation doesn’t exist anymore? Personally, I think there’s a difference between flying the flag of a nation we were once at war with, as an act of open rebellion, and my Swedish roommate having a little Swedish flag in the pencil holder on her desk, or me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/22 "2016-07-11T18:16:10Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > This is the flag of an enemy nation. Why isn’t it a form of treason to fly the flag of an enemy nation? Is it because we’re no longer at war with them, or the nation doesn’t exist anymore? Personally, I think there’s a difference between flying the flag of a nation we were once at war with, as an act of open rebellion, and my Swedish roommate having a little Swedish flag in the pencil holder on her desk, or me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) Why would flying another flag – be treason? How does it harm the interests or security of the US? A bit surprised that more than 1 American Doper is okay with the idea of jailing people because they fly a piece of cloth on the end of a pole. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/23 "2016-07-11T18:19:01Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > This was not a government flag pole. It was a privately-owned, temporary pole raised as part of a legal demonstration on public property. In terms of speech-regulation,\*\* it is equivalent to, for example, the large wooden signs erected on the National Mall by any number of different interest groups over the years.\*\* > > You are correct that the rebel flag does not belong on government flagpoles. But not because of its _specific_ content, whatever someone might feel that to be. It would be equally inappropriate to fly a “POW/MIA” flag, or a rainbow, or a Jolly Roger. Well, see I don’t know that I agree with part I bolded up above. The battle flag was appropriated and popularized by the KKK and so it does have some meaning beyond being just a flag of the losing side in the Civil War. I’m guessing a privately-owned, temporary cross raised as part of a legal demonstration on public property would be objectionable once it was doused with gasoline and lit it on fire. Same thing with this in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/24 "2016-07-11T18:31:38Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > This is the flag of an enemy nation. Why isn’t it a form of treason to fly the flag of an enemy nation? Is it because we’re no longer at war with them, or the nation doesn’t exist anymore? Personally, I think there’s a difference between flying the flag of a nation we were once at war with, as an act of open rebellion, and my Swedish roommate having a little Swedish flag in the pencil holder on her desk, or me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) > [@The Constitution of the United States](#): > > Article III > Section 3. > > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. Note that “aid and comfort” isn’t any old thing that gives America’s enemies a warm fuzzy. It means material aid, not just mouthing off on twitter. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/25 "2016-07-11T18:35:49Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Well, see I don’t know that I agree with part I bolded up above. The battle flag was appropriated and popularized by the KKK and so it does have some meaning beyond being just a flag of the losing side in the Civil War. > > I’m guessing a privately-owned, temporary cross raised as part of a legal demonstration on public property would be objectionable once it was doused with gasoline and lit it on fire. Same thing with this in my mind. Objectionable, sure, but objectionable doesn’t mean illegal, necessarily. Ccross burning has gone in front of the supreme court [before](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_v._Black), and the SC ruled that cross burning can be outlawed if intent to intimidate is demonstrated, but not if such intent to intimidate is not proven. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/26 "2016-07-11T18:47:02Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Well, see I don’t know that I agree with part I bolded up above. The battle flag was appropriated and popularized by the KKK and so it does have some meaning beyond being just a flag of the losing side in the Civil War. I’m saying it doesn’t matter what the meaning is. You do realize that in America it is legal to wear and display _actual_ KKK emblems in otherwise legal demonstrations? Also, you don’t want to assign too much weight to the [appropriation of a symbol by the Klan](http://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/75967545_copjvo8a.jpg) (notice how the police are here protecting the Klan’s expression). > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I’m guessing a privately-owned, temporary cross raised as part of a legal demonstration on public property would be objectionable once it was doused with gasoline and lit it on fire. Same thing with this in my mind. There might well be an issue with the _fire_ part, depending on local ordinances and the terms of the demonstration’s permit. The _meaning_ of the symbol should not be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/27 "2016-07-11T18:57:00Z")
I’ll ask this question here rather than start a thread on it. I live in southern, rural, Appalachian Ohio. I see trucks featuring the image of the Confederate flag almost daily, and I drive by some houses out in the sticks that fly that flag. For some reason these sightings surprise me much more in Ohio than they would further south. What do you think these hillbillies are trying to convey by these displays? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/28 "2016-07-11T19:07:05Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’ll ask this question here rather than start a thread on it. I live in southern, rural, Appalachian Ohio. I see trucks featuring the image of the Confederate flag almost daily, and I drive by some houses out in the sticks that fly that flag. For some reason these sightings surprise me much more in Ohio than they would further south. > > What do you think these hillbillies are trying to convey by these displays? “We hate black people. We are also too stupid to be allowed to breed.” ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/29 "2016-07-11T19:07:57Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > This is the flag of an enemy nation. Why isn’t it a form of treason to fly the flag of an enemy nation? Is it because we’re no longer at war with them, or the nation doesn’t exist anymore? Personally, I think there’s a difference between flying the flag of a nation we were once at war with, as an act of open rebellion, and my Swedish roommate having a little Swedish flag in the pencil holder on her desk, or me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) The USA has been at war with Great Britain, Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Spain in its history, the last 3 more recently than the Civil War. Should flying any of those flags be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/30 "2016-07-11T19:13:22Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’ll ask this question here rather than start a thread on it. I live in southern, rural, Appalachian Ohio. I see trucks featuring the image of the Confederate flag almost daily, and I drive by some houses out in the sticks that fly that flag. For some reason these sightings surprise me much more in Ohio than they would further south. > > What do you think these hillbillies are trying to convey by these displays? I’ve seen rebel flags within 50 miles of the Canadian border. Without additional information I don’t think it can be pinned down. There are three possible (independent) messages that come immediately to my mind as most likely, but only one of those is necessarily racist. The others are, approximately, “I like the South,” and “I’m a rebel/badass/rugged individualist.” The latter is equivalent to the (likely) modern message of a Gadsden flag or sticker. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/31 "2016-07-11T19:18:31Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > This is the flag of an enemy nation. Why isn’t it a form of treason to fly the flag of an enemy nation? Is it because we’re no longer at war with them, or the nation doesn’t exist anymore? Personally, I think there’s a difference between flying the flag of a nation we were once at war with, as an act of open rebellion, and my Swedish roommate having a little Swedish flag in the pencil holder on her desk, or me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) Was the CSA ever considered an enemy nation, though? Didn’t the government of the US consider the rebellious states to still be part of the Union and not a separate country? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/32 "2016-07-11T19:45:44Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > …me having a shirt with the Slovak flag on it that my mother bought because she was in Slovakia when Czechoslovakia divided into two republics. (My grandparents are from Slovakia, and we still go occasionally to visit relatives there.) Yeah? Well I’m half-Czech! And we were HUMILIATED to be associated with you people for all those years! You know why? Because your dumplings SUCK. And your beer SUCKS. Thank you for this moment of gratuitous Slovak hate, thumbing my nose from Prague where the beer and dumplings are DELICIOUS. Wave that flag; wave it wide and high – summertime’s done, come and gone my oh my ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/33 "2016-07-11T21:03:29Z")
It says the group raising the flag was re-enactors. Looking at them, they are clearly dressed in period uniforms. But the sponsoring group is labeled “confederate flag supporting”. Is the re-enactment just a cover? I have been to civil war battle reenactments and was never offended by the confederate flags flying in the camps and on the battlefields there. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/34 "2016-07-11T21:29:37Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > “South Carolina Secessionist Party”? That would be a fine idea. Take out the US Military Bases and the entire economy would be based on selling Beef Jerky on the roadside… Well, there could also be speed traps to nab some bux from families driving down to Disney World… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/35 "2016-07-11T21:39:49Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > It says the group raising the flag was re-enactors. Looking at them, they are clearly dressed in period uniforms. But the sponsoring group is labeled “confederate flag supporting”. Is the re-enactment just a cover? Maybe. According to the article: > [@](#): > > The rally was organized by the South Carolina Secessionist Party, and supporters held their own flags. Some dressed as a Confederate Memorial Honor Guard. They saluted as the flag rose up the pole, and the crowd applauded and cheered, with some shouting “Leave it there!” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/36 "2016-07-11T23:33:33Z")
I can legally fly a swastika if I wish too, as long as I’m on my own property. Like it or not, the same should be said for a rebel flag. Speech is not just for popular ideas. Yes, the CSA were a bunch of traitors. Guess what – expressing support for them isn’t treason (especially since they’re long gone). These people aren’t even advocating to rebel against the government. They’re just being a bunch of assholes. They’re not using government property to do so – they brought their own flag pole and their own flag. It’s not illegal to be a douchebag. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > This was not a government flag pole. It was a privately-owned, temporary pole raised as part of a legal demonstration on public property. In terms of speech-regulation, it is equivalent to, for example, the large wooden signs erected on the National Mall by any number of different interest groups over the years. > > You are correct that the rebel flag does not belong on government flagpoles. But not because of its _specific_ content, whatever someone might feel that to be. It would be equally inappropriate to fly a “POW/MIA” flag, or a rainbow, or a Jolly Roger. A Jolly Roger? WTF would be wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/37 "2016-07-11T23:53:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > A Jolly Roger? WTF would be wrong with that? It is, after all, the official flag of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/38 "2016-07-12T00:00:48Z")
Yeah, but in their case, it represents the Jolly Good Rogering. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/39 "2016-07-12T00:25:43Z")
Seriously, wouldn’t [this flag be more appropriate/accurate](https://goo.gl/images/oFKbMr)? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/40 "2016-07-12T00:56:26Z")
I like it when I’m on a road trip, and I come up on a Good Ol’ Boy in a rusty pickup with the Not-Quite-The-Actual Confederate Flag. It’s like a label saying “I’m not a genius, and might be drunk, and I’m fer sure angry as hell, so you might want to keep your distance!” And so I do. Hit the far lane and get about a mile ahead just to be safe. ETA: Then I put on NPR and swig some Vernor’s with my pretzels… and celebrate my Union heritage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644.md?page=3)