# Ignorant Bigots Raise Racist Flag Yet Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644 "2016-07-11T12:05:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/61 "2016-07-12T06:02:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > . . . Do you have an **actual** cite that flying the Jolly Roger is against international law? [Well, here’s another discussion board, where a guy says his ship was boarded by the Coast Guard for flying that flag](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3tptdy/question_is_it_actually_illegal_to_fly_the_jolly/). I also mentioned the Navy Officer who told my uncle to pull down the flag. There was a third reference to this in my previous link. So all I’ve got is indirect testimony from three people who have been told by military officers that it is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/62 "2016-07-12T06:14:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > [Well, here’s another discussion board, where a guy says his ship was boarded by the Coast Guard for flying that flag](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3tptdy/question_is_it_actually_illegal_to_fly_the_jolly/). I also mentioned the Navy Officer who told my uncle to pull down the flag. There was a third reference to this in my previous link. > > So all I’ve got is indirect testimony from three people who have been told by military officers that it is illegal. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. If they asked me that, I’d tell them to show me the specific law. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/63 "2016-07-12T08:41:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. If they asked me that, I’d tell them to show me the specific law. I seem to remember the Navy ship I was on flying the “Jolly Roger” during a “Crossing the Line” ceremony back in the 1980s. ETA: Oh, I’d also ask that Navy officer who he thinks he is and what he thinks he’s pulling. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/64 "2016-07-12T13:25:37Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah? Well I’m half-Czech! And we were HUMILIATED to be associated with you people for all those years! You know why? Because your dumplings SUCK. And your beer SUCKS. > > Thank you for this moment of gratuitous Slovak hate, thumbing my nose from Prague where the beer and dumplings are DELICIOUS. Wave that flag; wave it wide and high – summertime’s done, come and gone my oh my You can call this song The “Czech No Slovak Blues.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/65 "2016-07-12T13:27:32Z")
“Treason doth prosper; what’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”\* \*or if you wrap yourself in the Confederate flag, apparently, you get to beat the rap too. It’s still hard for me to believe that Davis, Stephens, Lee, and the rest of those fuckers didn’t get strung up for the treasonous criminals they were. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/66 "2016-07-12T13:37:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “We hate black people. We are also too stupid to be allowed to breed.” This is the meaning that occurred to me. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > I’ve seen rebel flags within 50 miles of the Canadian border. > > Without additional information I don’t think it can be pinned down. There are three possible (independent) messages that come immediately to my mind as most likely, but only one of those is necessarily racist. The others are, approximately, “I like the South,” and “I’m a rebel/badass/rugged individualist.” The latter is equivalent to the (likely) modern message of a Gadsden flag or sticker. I’m going to substitute the Gadsden flag in my mind’s eye when I see the rebel flag. It’s a somewhat more palatable sentiment, and I like [rattlesnakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/67 "2016-07-12T13:58:18Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Well, the flag Germany flew when we were at war with them is no longer the flag of the nation, and FWIW, I think it’s the case that you can’t actually fly the swastika flag in Germany. We have officially reconciled with the UK, and have allied with them during several wars, and they have embassies and consulates here. > > I have an Israeli flag that I put in my window in Israeli Independence day, and Holocaust Remembrance Day, but I also put up a US flag on US holidays. My husband earned one in Iraq, so we might as well use it. On Holocaust Remembrance Day, we hang both flags, because the US was one of the countries that liberated the camps, and we hang it higher than the Israeli flag. (Yes, I know Israeli was not a country yet, but the flag looks like a tallit with a Magen David, so it’s a good symbol of the Jewish people.) > > Anyway, I get flying other flags, but I can’t believe people who fly the Stars & Bars aren’t, on some level, hoping to offend. We’re in the United States, not Germany, so it’s [perfectly legal to fly a swastika flag here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie). Otherwise, I get what you’re saying - I think anyone flying the confederate flag is an asshole too. I just don’t think it rises anywhere near the level of needing to be an exception to the 1st Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/68 "2016-07-12T14:14:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I seem to remember the Navy ship I was on flying the “Jolly Roger” during a “Crossing the Line” ceremony back in the 1980s. > > ETA: Oh, I’d also ask that Navy officer who he thinks he is and what he thinks he’s pulling. I would be curious where the flag was flown. (If it was flown as a burgee or a jack, it is unlikely to have had any negative reactions. If it was flown as an ensign, well, who in these days is going to challenge a warship of the USN?) = = = = The ensign position, a staff projecting from the stern of a ship or flown from the gaff of a sailing vessel so equipped, is the location of the national emblem, (_i.e._ ensign), and I could see a Jolly Roger getting a lot of negative attention for that. The jack position is at the bow of the ship. That is usually reserved for a second national flag or ensign, but not all navies follow that tradition. So while it could garner negative attention, I am not sure that it would. Courtesy flags, (flags of a nation being visited, flown by the visiting ship), are flown from the starboard yard\* or spreader\*\* of the most forward mast. However, on powered ships and boats (that do not have masts to hold sails) the courtesy flag is flown from the “mast” on which the navigation lights are placed and and on sloops (where there is only a single mast), the courtesy flag is flown on a spreader for that mast. The last point gets confusing, because the burgee, (indicating a club with which the ship or boat is associated), is often flown from the same line, below the courtesy flag if there is one. So some joker flying the Jolly Roger from the position of the courtesy flag in or near the waters of the nation in which the vessel is registered–thus not needing to fly a courtesy flag–might simply claim that it is a club burgee. (Flying the Jolly Roger in place of a courtesy flag, if sailing in the waters of another nation, would be regarded as a grave insult, at best.) (There is also a house flag, (indicating the corporation of individual who owns the ship), that generally flies from the mainmast (or the mizzen for a ketch or yawl), but which might be flown on the port side on a sloop or powered vessel that had only a single mast.) - yard: the horizontal or diagonal spar from which a sail is hung. \*\* spreader: a small spar-like device to keep the sail lines away from the mast on masts that do not carry yards. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/69 "2016-07-12T14:38:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > A Jolly Roger? WTF would be wrong with that? > [@Peremensoe](#): > > It’s not the flag of the government the office represents. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well then I suppose most of Pittsburgh is gonna be considered traitors. 😃 (My neighbor’s got a huge one hanging next to his door) HIS door. Not the door of the government offices. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/70 "2016-07-12T15:13:55Z")
On a Marconi rigged sailboat, you can use the back-stay to fly the ensign. As far as the jolly roger, piracy laws are pretty old, however… flying the jolly roger in international waters can get you boarded by any navy or other ship because pirates are offered no protection under the maritime laws. So not a good idea no matter how funny you think it may be to fly it. Inside national/coastal waters, specifically Canada and US, it’s just disrespectful, at worst. The coast guard or local harbour police can ask you to take it down but there really are no specific laws that say you must. However, international water laws apply in that you may be boarded. In practice, the rest of the boating community just thinks you’re a douche bag. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/71 "2016-07-12T15:52:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > HIS door. Not the door of the government offices. :smack: Okay, I think maybe I’m being too subtle. For those who aren’t baseball fans, the Pittsburgh Pirates’ emblem is the Jolly Roger. Don’t any other cities have their sports’ teams flags or anything hanging up during the playoffs, or whatever? (Even at publically owned spots) (Of course, this probably depends on how we’re defining “government property”) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/72 "2016-07-12T15:55:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In practice, the rest of the boating community just thinks you’re a douche bag. Or a British submariner. They’ve been flying the Jolly Roger when coming back to port since WW1, when some high admiral called them “underhanded, unfair and damned un-British” and opined they should all be hanged as pirates. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/73 "2016-07-12T15:59:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Courtesy flags, (flags of a nation being visited, flown by the visiting ship), are flown from the starboard yard\* or spreader\*\* of the most forward mast. However, on powered ships and boats (that do not have masts to hold sails) the courtesy flag is flown from the “mast” on which the navigation lights are placed and and on sloops (where there is only a single mast), the courtesy flag is flown on a spreader for that mast. The marina where we have our pontoon currently has a beautiful display of _hundreds_ of courtesy flags flying. The owner bet me I couldn’t guess the significance. I studied them for a while, then guessed: [2016 summer Olympic participants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Summer_Olympics_Parade_of_Nations) He was surprised, gave me a beer! I had earlier observed him securing an Olympic flag to his boat, so it was an obvious guess. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/74 "2016-07-12T16:23:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. If they asked me that, I’d tell them to show me the specific law. I suppose… But if a policeman pulls you over for speeding, do you demand he shows you the specific law? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/75 "2016-07-12T17:57:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :smack: Okay, I think maybe I’m being too subtle. For those who aren’t baseball fans, the Pittsburgh Pirates’ emblem is the Jolly Roger. Don’t any other cities have their sports’ teams flags or anything hanging up during the playoffs, or whatever? (Even at publically owned spots) > > (Of course, this probably depends on how we’re defining “government property”) I know they don’t hang out Cubs flags In Chicago. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/76 "2016-07-12T19:17:42Z")
Congressman Steve King, of _Iowa_, keeps a Confederate flag on his desk, next to a Don’t Tread On Me flag and the US flag (and something else that I think is the Iowa state flag, but I’m not sure). And what’s that other flag, something to do with the Vatican? > **[Why Does Birther Congressman Steve King Have a Confederate Flag on His Desk?](https://www.gawker.com/why-does-birther-congressman-steve-king-have-a-confeder-1783507988)** > > Last week, U.S. Representative Steve King, a Republican from Iowa, spoke to Sioux City TV station KCAU about the bill he recently introduced in Congress. In the video interview, a Confederate flag is displayed on King’s desk, along with the U.S.... ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/77 "2016-07-12T21:37:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Congressman Steve King, of _Iowa_, keeps a Confederate flag on his desk, next to a Don’t Tread On Me flag and the US flag (and something else that I think is the Iowa state flag, but I’m not sure). And what’s that other flag, something to do with the Vatican? > [http://gawker.com/why-does-birther-congressman-steve-king-have-a-confeder-1783507988](http://gawker.com/why-does-birther-congressman-steve-king-have-a-confeder-1783507988) Ugh, Steve King. The only thing that makes sharing the same state is the fact that I’m on the opposite side of Iowa. Western Iowa, and particularly northwestern Iowa, is a scary land of hardcore Christian conservatives who don’t need none of that liberal gummint nonsense, thankyouverymuch. Looks like he has the American flag, the Iowa state flag, the Gadsden flag, the Confederate flag, and the papal flag. Cause nothing says “good friend of Catholics and the Pope” like the good old CSA flag. He’s such a maroon. A Democrat can’t get any votes in his district, and the sane Republicans can’t run anyone who can beat him in a primary. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/78 "2016-07-12T23:06:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, who didn’t see [this](https://www.yahoo.com/news/confederate-flag-back-day-sc-statehouse-201940465.html) coming? Seriously, what is it with the love affair with those who pretend the south was hunky dory and that damn rag? Could it be that, whilst having no wish to return to the horrors of slavery, they do want to respect their ancestors who fought and died for ‘that damn rag’, however ignoble the cause. Sure, some of them may be bigots too, but it’s a free country. Where’s the harm? I can see it might hurt the feelings, and legitimately, of others but there’s no law against hurting someone’s feelings. At least not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/79 "2016-07-13T01:40:48Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Could it be that, whilst having no wish to return to the horrors of slavery, they do want to respect their ancestors who fought and died for ‘that damn rag’, however ignoble the cause. Sure, some of them may be bigots too, but it’s a free country. Where’s the harm? I can see it might hurt the feelings, and legitimately, of others but there’s no law against hurting someone’s feelings. At least not yet. Of course, it’s a free country. Which means we can say they’re complete assholes for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644/80 "2016-07-13T03:54:59Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It’s on government property. That’s the stupid part here. > > Keep the fucking rebel flag off of government flag poles. This. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-bigots-raise-racist-flag-yet-again/759644.md?page=5)