# Ignorant Douches Who Get Japanese (or other) Tattoos **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698 "2007-07-21T20:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/141 "2007-07-22T16:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=alreadymichigan] Eastern cultures are so much more **mystical** and **enlightened** than ours. [/QUOTE] Those two qualities are mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/142 "2007-07-22T17:00:01Z")
[QUOTE=Dante] In the interest of disclosure, I have a kanji tattoo that is supposed to mean “courage” but is actually gibberish and I have a tattoo in Klingon that is supposed to say “To explore strange new worlds, to seek out …blah blah blah… where no man has gone before” but is also gibberish, since the symbols I used were from the Star Trek Encyclopedia, before any system of Klingon writing had been established. FTR, I am neither Japanese nor Klingon. That sound you just heard is **Operation Ripper** popping a blood vessel. [/QUOTE] I think you have mistaken the sound’s meaning-- that was me, laughing my ass off at you. I guess if you don’t mind having meaningless scribbles on your skin forever, hey, knock yourself out, but it strikes me as pretty hilarious. Hell, even if it was “real” Klingon, I’d still laugh. Harder, probably. > [@aruvqan](#): > > And what if I did have a kanji tat? Would I be a poseur if I knew exactly what it said? Actually, I do happen to have several japanese dictionaries around, including the New Japanese-English Character Dictionary that I got when i was taking japanese in uni. Heck, Id bet that there are kanji dictionaries online now. Do you really think you can just pick random characters out of the Japanese-English dictionary and put them in whatever order you like, and it’s going to mean what you think it means? That’s not how that language works. It’s not how English works either, btw. What you would wind up with is something semi-coherent at best, and which might have connotations to someone who DOES read that language that you don’t want. Click on the link in\*\* Kyla’s \*\* post for some good examples. I imagine your chances of it meaning what you want it to mean also depends on the artist rendering them correctly, and someone who doesn’t read that language and to whom the symbols are just squiggly lines is more likely to screw it up. But if you just want it as a pretty picture, that’s fine. Just don’t pretend it says “Strength” when truth be told, it says “Bull Rat” or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/143 "2007-07-22T17:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] So I may think we have _way_ to many photos around the house (it gets cluttered around here) but I know this is how my wife _remembers_. And the tattoos are part of that. They’re not for me or for anyone else–they’re for her, and only her. [/QUOTE] I’d recommend a digital camera, but those things are just so damn trendy. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/144 "2007-07-22T17:40:20Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Those two qualities are mutually exclusive. [/QUOTE] Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/145 "2007-07-22T18:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=Bearflag70] I’d recommend a digital camera, but those things are just so damn trendy. [/QUOTE] Oh, we’ve got dozens of gigabytes of photos on our computer, too. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/146 "2007-07-22T18:58:49Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Whoosh. [/QUOTE] I’m not so sure. **Alreadymichigan** was (whether on purpose or not) making a good point: The significance of a tattooed script doesn’t like just in the semantic meaning of its symbols, but lies in the connotation of the form of its symbols as well. So, for example, “Love” tattooed in gothic script means something different than “Love” tattooed in a script that looks like a digital clock display. So anyway, since **Alreadymichigan** seemed to be making a genuine point there, I doubt his other comment about “mysticism and enlightenment” was meant tongue-in-cheek. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/147 "2007-07-22T19:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’m not so sure. **Alreadymichigan** was (whether on purpose or not) making a good point: The significance of a tattooed script doesn’t like just in the semantic meaning of its symbols, but lies in the connotation of the form of its symbols as well. So, for example, “Love” tattooed in gothic script means something different than “Love” tattooed in a script that looks like a digital clock display. So anyway, since **Alreadymichigan** seemed to be making a genuine point there, I doubt his other comment about “mysticism and enlightenment” was meant tongue-in-cheek. -FrL- [/QUOTE] I have to disagree. Regardless of the tenability of the position you attribute to him, I’m fairly certain **Alreadymichigan** was making a tongue-in-cheek point about the exoticizing of mundane foreign languages. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/148 "2007-07-22T19:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’m not so sure. **Alreadymichigan** was (whether on purpose or not) making a good point: The significance of a tattooed script doesn’t like just in the semantic meaning of its symbols, but lies in the connotation of the form of its symbols as well. So, for example, “Love” tattooed in gothic script means something different than “Love” tattooed in a script that looks like a digital clock display. So anyway, since **Alreadymichigan** seemed to be making a genuine point there, I doubt his other comment about “mysticism and enlightenment” was meant tongue-in-cheek. -FrL- [/QUOTE] I have to disagree, at least on your interpretation of **Alreadymichigan** ’s motives. Regardless of the tenability of the position you attribute to him, I’m fairly certain **Alreadymichigan** was making a tongue-in-cheek point about the exoticizing of mundane foreign languages, and, indeed, foreign culture in general. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/149 "2007-07-22T19:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’m not so sure. **Alreadymichigan** was (whether on purpose or not) making a good point: The significance of a tattooed script doesn’t like just in the semantic meaning of its symbols, but lies in the connotation of the form of its symbols as well. So, for example, “Love” tattooed in gothic script means something different than “Love” tattooed in a script that looks like a digital clock display. So anyway, since **Alreadymichigan** seemed to be making a genuine point there, I doubt his other comment about “mysticism and enlightenment” was meant tongue-in-cheek. -FrL- [/QUOTE] :dubious: It read pretty clearly as sarcasm to me. What genuine point do you see him/her making? That Eastern culture really is more mystical or that the “weird and kooky lines” imbue it with more magical meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/150 "2007-07-22T19:17:24Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] I have to disagree, at least on your interpretation of **Alreadymichigan** ’s motives. Regardless of the tenability of the position you attribute to him, I’m fairly certain **Alreadymichigan** was making a tongue-in-cheek point about the exoticizing of mundane foreign languages, and, indeed, foreign culture in general. [/QUOTE] I liked the second better, coming after my own reply as it did. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/151 "2007-07-22T19:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] I think you have mistaken the sound’s meaning-- that was me, laughing my ass off at you. I guess if you don’t mind having meaningless scribbles on your skin forever, hey, knock yourself out, but it strikes me as pretty hilarious. Hell, even if it was “real” Klingon, I’d still laugh. Harder, probably. [/quote] So, back on page one, when you said, > [@Rubstreak one page one](#): > > You can get whatever you want tattooed on your body. If you don’t care what I think, fine, but I’m as entitled to have an opinion about it as you are to have your opinion. Would I yell and scream at you? Or say anything at all to you? No. But if you have a kanji tattoo and you’re obviously not an officianado of Japanese culture, and I can see it, or you show it to me, I’m going to smile and say, “How nice for you!” But I’m privately going to think you’re a wanker, and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Good thing you don’t care what anyone thinks, right? That turns out to be not entirely accurate, doesn’t it? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Do you really think you can just pick random characters out of the Japanese-English dictionary and put them in whatever order you like, and it’s going to mean what you think it means? That’s not how that language works. It’s not how English works either, btw. What you would wind up with is something semi-coherent at best, and which might have connotations to someone who DOES read that language that you don’t want. Click on the link in\*\* Kyla’s \*\* post for some good examples. I imagine your chances of it meaning what you want it to mean also depends on the artist rendering them correctly, and someone who doesn’t read that language and to whom the symbols are just squiggly lines is more likely to screw it up. Did you actually read anything else in **arquvan** ’s post? Like, about how she’s studying Japanese at college? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she probably knows a fair bit more about how the Japanese language works than you do. > [@](#): > > But if you just want it as a pretty picture, that’s fine. Just don’t pretend it says “Strength” when truth be told, it says “Bull Rat” or whatever. You’re really coming off as a prick in this thread, you know that? ---
**Author:** ![Leonard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@Leonard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leonard)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/152 "2007-07-22T21:04:48Z")
I never understood the point of getting a tattoo, but now I see that it’s to annoy obnoxious pricks. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/153 "2007-07-22T21:08:31Z")
Yeah, when it comes to tattoos, obnoxious pricks really get under my skin. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/154 "2007-07-22T21:34:53Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] So, back on page one, when you said, That turns out to be not entirely accurate, doesn’t it? [/quote] Get whatever you want on your body. You’re entitled to do that. If I think it’s ridiculous, in the privacy of my own mind, I’ll laugh. When reading the Pit, I’ll laugh out loud and say so, esp. people who admit that they have scribbles on their body that they know are nonsense, or Klingon. I don’t see a contradiction there. > [@](#): > > Did you actually read anything else in **arquvan** ’s post? Like, about how she’s studying Japanese at college? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she probably knows a fair bit more about how the Japanese language works than you do. Then what does she need to string together characters from the dictionary for? Doesn’t she know the language? Or can’t she ask an actual Japanese person, like one of her teachers? > [@](#): > > You’re really coming off as a prick in this thread, you know that? Sticks and stones, baby. I’m being honest about what I think of these bullshit tattoos on an anonymous forum. I’m posting my opinions just like you are. You don’t like mine, even though I’m as entitled to them as you are to yours, so you get to call me a prick? OK, whatever you say. This is the Pit, so ad hominem away if it makes you feel superior. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/155 "2007-07-22T22:24:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not going to take a position on tattoos in general, but I do call bullshit on them being “for yourself”. Quite obviously, the reason one would want to alter ones appearance is so that others can see it. I seriously doubt people get tattoos just so they can stand alone in front of the mirror and say, “Gee, I sure like looking at my tattoo.” Especially if it’s on your back, where you can’t even see it yourself. With my tattoos I’m _willing_ to have them be seen but they are not there _to_ be seen. Heck, I’d have gotten them even if there’d been no ink in the gun. Half of my pleasure in getting tattoos is in actually getting the tattoo. I’ll admit to a certain level of masochism that makes the pain of getting a tattoo enjoyable to me, followed by the three weeks or so of the tactile experience of the tattoo after it has scarred over. If branding allowed for fine detail work and I scarred better I’d probably do that too. The other half is in the reminder of that, in the specific meaning or intent in me choosing my design, in having committed to an idea if there is one behind the tattoo. But my tattoos are purposely placed specifically so that most people have no idea I have them. Discounting other men in the shower at the gym (where I am certainly doing nothing designed to garner attention) I have a piece that is more than a decade old and has only been seen by maybe 5 people, mostly incidentally. I only see it very rarely and with some effort but it makes me happy just knowing it is there. If I were on a desert island with no hope of rescue but the ability to give myself tattoos safely I think I would actually go to town because I could finally do it with absolutely zero thought to what other people will think, which is the only reason I don’t have neck tattoos. If I put a certain painting on my living room wall, it is for me. That isn’t to say nobody else in the world will ever see that I’ve put that painting on my wall, just that them seeing it was completely irrelevant to me. All that said, and as I posted in the original thread, I do tend to look down on flash. Not because I care all that much as odds are much higher that the person getting it will ultimately reject it. As for the comment about “have you ever looked at a woman and said ‘she’d look even better if she had a tattoo across the bridge of her ass’”. No, I have never though that. But more importantly I have never looked at a woman and thought “She is beautiful unless it turns out she has a tattoo across the bridge of her ass.” ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/156 "2007-07-23T00:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Do you really think you can just pick random characters out of the Japanese-English dictionary and put them in whatever order you like, and it’s going to mean what you think it means? That’s not how that language works. It’s not how English works either, btw. What you would wind up with is something semi-coherent at best, and which might have connotations to someone who DOES read that language that you don’t want. Click on the link in\*\* Kyla’s \*\* post for some good examples. I imagine your chances of it meaning what you want it to mean also depends on the artist rendering them correctly, and someone who doesn’t read that language and to whom the symbols are just squiggly lines is more likely to screw it up. But if you just want it as a pretty picture, that’s fine. Just don’t pretend it says “Strength” when truth be told, it says “Bull Rat” or whatever. [/QUOTE] Gee, I suppose that I couldnt get a haiku tattoo because I cant appreciate Bassho as a poet because I dont understand japanese. There are phenomenal translations of poetry [japanese, latin, greek, french…] out there. You can even get some volumes that have the original, the direct translation and then an english interpretation that tries to convey the meaning even though it is not the exact translation. Translators work all the fucking time, but I guess they are just blowing smoke up peoples asses and are really speaking gibberish to both halves of the conversation…so I guess I really shouldn’t trust a professor of japanese to give me the proper kanji for ‘butterfly dream’ because as a joke he will gie me something like buggy nightmare instead and laugh as he does it? Oh, by the way, anybody who can do [edward scissorhands](http://www.tattooartists.org/Image.asp?ImgFile=Img95172_edward.jpg) can do a simple [kanji](http://www.kanjisite.com/html/start/rhsinfo/r_yuutomo.html) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/157 "2007-07-23T00:22:43Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Oh, we’ve got dozens of gigabytes of photos on our computer, too. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Ah. Just so you know, when you operate a camera in public, you are thrusting your camera upon everyone around you, even if they are not in the camera’s field of view. If you are not thoroughly well-versed in photography techniques and theory (e.g., lighting, shadows, perspective, color, exposure, etc.) you had better be careful where you take photos in public, lest you be judged. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/158 "2007-07-23T00:25:41Z")
And when on vacation, please try not to take photos of anything from cultures which aren’t your own, because you couldn’t possibly hope to understand them or take any pleasure in viewing them later. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/159 "2007-07-23T00:29:25Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Then what does she need to string together characters from the dictionary for? Doesn’t she know the language? Or can’t she ask an actual Japanese person, like one of her teachers? Sticks and stones, baby. I’m being honest about what I think of these bullshit tattoos on an anonymous forum. I’m posting my opinions just like you are. You don’t like mine, even though I’m as entitled to them as you are to yours, so you get to call me a prick? OK, whatever you say. This is the Pit, so ad hominem away if it makes you feel superior. [/QUOTE] I said that I had studied japanese in uni, i needed a language and I had already done by that time 6 years of french and 3 years of spanish. I really didnt feel like sleeping through first year french or spanish so I opted for a language I didnt already know. I already had a liking for the culture from many years of exposure to japanese friends. FWIW, I am now studying german because I have friends in germany, though I dont see myself getting anything written in german inked on myself either. Although IF I really wanted something in kanji inked, I have plenty of friends who are wonderfully fluent in both english and japanese. Unlike my brother in law, who is engaged to a japanese woman and has studied japanese for something on the order of 10 years, I fulfilled my language requirement and filled that timeslot with a blend of political science, sociology and studio in art [enamelwork, as if it matters. Maybe I should hae studied tattooing just to be more annoying.] OO pit=) Leck’ mich. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698/160 "2007-07-23T00:40:37Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] And when on vacation, please try not to take photos of anything from cultures which aren’t your own, because you couldn’t possibly hope to understand them or take any pleasure in viewing them later. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because that’s exactly the same thing as getting a tattoo. What is your point? Obviously it’s trendy to get kanji tattoos, and lots of ignorant people are doing it. I point again to Kyla’s link to lots of mistranslated or gibberish tattoos that don’t mean what people think they mean. This is a common phenomenon, and people like aruqvan who really do know about this stuff are in the minority. If you want to get one anyway, do it. Who cares what pricks like me and Operation Ripper think? You know it’s just the most awesome, perfect lifelong decision for you. So why get so defensive, call names, and make faulty metaphors to make yourself feel better? You’re the one who’s in the right, and we’re just stupid, judgmental jerks. You win! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ignorant-douches-who-get-japanese-or-other-tattoos/412698.md?page=9)