Ilhan Omar - A thread about her marriage and immigration history.

The BBQ Pit
302

There is no actual evidence that she married her brother. All you showed was evidence consistent with one possible story that she married her brother. It’s also consistent with a possible story that she married a space alien shape-changer. Or that she is a space alien shape-changer. Or a million other possibilities.

The way to combat this kind of silliness is to ignore it, barring actual evidence. This is bullshit conspiracy nonsense. There’s no reasoning with those who believe bullshit conspiracy nonsense.

303

Which, as noted, is my stance on the matter. And it is also consistent with innocence, with her husband being bisexual, and a hundred other things.

Congratulations, you’ve written what I wrote and believe what I believe.

304

What about the rest of my post? Why would you be spending so much effort on something with exactly the same evidence that Omar is or married a space-alien? This is nonsense, and Omar is right in treating it as random internet silliness.

305

Why is it silly? While there is evidence consistent with innocence, there is also evidence consistent with guilt.

Why do you have any predetermined answer?

Climate change denialism started out of a belief that it’s silly to think that humans can affect the entire climate, given the sheer tonnage of the air, compared to our diminutive size. The sense that something is silly is irrelevant to reality.

306

Space aliens, man. Let’s see you spend as much effort on the possibility that Omar and her former husband are from space and can change their shape.

You’re just JAQ’ing off here. No different than Birthers pretending like it’s entirely reasonable for them to be questioning Obama’s birthplace.

My “predetermined answer” is the same as it is for any random, evidence-free internet nonsense – this is conspiracy theory nonsense and should be ignored, barring actual evidence. That should be your answer too, along with the answer of any thinking person.

307

Do you care about the truth? You’ve spent an awful lot of time trying to get other people to dig up the real story here. It would be far easier, I think, to just do that stuff yourself.

Then you really win, because you can shove the proof in all of our stupid faces.

308

I believe that I spent about an hour, overall. Since then, most of my time has been spent trying to get people to not railroad their thinking. As said, I don’t really care how things turn out with Omar, my concern is the lack of critical thinking.

The evidence is inconsistent with Obama having been born outside the USA. Ergo, it’s not true.

If the evidence was consistent and there were plausible accusations independent of biased/likely dishonest sources, then it would be within the realm of possibility up until the point where new evidence came in.

In the case of Omar, the idea began in the Somali community, from a guy who was respected enough to be designated a moderator for the site, and who seems to have had a serial hatred for hypocrisy and liars.

It’s quite possibly that he simply misread the social media connections between Omar and her ex and assumed, based on Elmi’s name, that they had the same father. It’s hard to know how the rumor came to be. But if the accusation were true, we would expect it to be a bit of trivia floating around as gossip in the Somali community and we would expect it to be a “lawful-*” type to be the one to let it out. That is what we see in reality.

Assuming that the guy generated it based on assumptions - when we know nothing about how he came across the information and when there’s a reasonable amount of evidence consistent with the accusation - is foolhardy. It’s completely within the realm of possibility that he generated it through coming up with a theory consistent with the evidence and then decided that this meant his theory was true. But we don’t know that.

From what we know, it’s not a silly accusation. It could be true. But there are other explanations that could also be true.

Disproving the accusation, despite statements to the contrary, would be fairly easy. And, as noted, it would likely be financially profitable for Omar to do sp as well. So whether the specific accusation is true or not, I would lean against innocence - I just wouldn’t strongly lean to a specific version of guilt.

309

I’m curious to know the real answer. Whether we’ll ever get that, I don’t know. If we don’t, I will continue to sleep soundly. I’ll continue to be happy that Omar is in politics, bringing a different perspective to Congress.

Indeed. But, it’s more useful to the world for me to do what I’m doing.

For a historian who is deeply entranced by the mystery of Atlantis, there is going to be a giant sense of accomplishment in finding some proof pro or con that Atlantis is real.

For a teacher, giving his students the legend of Atlantis and pushing them to come to a logic and evidence based conclusion will be the thing that gives him a sense of accomplishment.

On this topic, I’m in the latter camp. I feel like it brings more to the world than the former.

310

This is some delusional bullshit right here. You’re trying to justify some crackpot theory by pretending it’s some lofty search for “Truth”. Do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better to mitigate the embarrassment you’ve already caused yourself. Just don’t expect “the world” to be grateful to you for this load of crap.

(JFC, Atlantis?..You’re a fucking loon.)

311

The Birthers fashion stories that are consistent with whatever facts are out there. Any time a new fact is pointed out, their story changes. All this demonstrates is the power of imagination. You’ve offered nothing more than the Birthers.

312

Like I said:

313

a) https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21841191&postcount=300
b) The birthers had no precipitating information from any source that would be in the know.
c) There was never any information consistent with their theory.

So yes, if we ignore those points then I have said that Omar was having three ways with a giraffe and her brother, and I base that on my last tarot reading. But to get there you have just blasted past what I said and asserted three discrete statements that are directly in contradiction to what I actually said.

Now, I assume that you discount all of this for reasons. I’m not saying that you’re being dishonest nor unreasonable. But at least give those reasons if you’re going to ignore literally every statement and present a completely opposite view of exactly what was stated.

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https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21841191&postcount=300

Why do you believe that I have accused Omar of anything, if that is in direct contradiction to what I have said?

315

This doesn’t conflict with what I’ve said. You’re not doing exactly the same thing as the Birthers, but you’re not offering anything more than the Birthers. There’s no more reason to believe that Omar married her brother than to believe that Obama was born in Kenya. The social media posts you’ve presented tell us absolutely nothing. A “just so” story tells us absolutely nothing. There’s nothing here. But you’re acting like it’s reasonable to suspect there might be something there… but there’s no reason for this. No more than for Birtherism. No more “information consistent” than for Birtherism. Omar and her brother both breathe oxygen… her husband also breathes oxygen… so maybe Omar married her brother. Omar doesn’t seem to want to talk about this or provide documentation… Obama doesn’t seem to want to provide his long-form… There’s nothing more than the equivalent to this.

316

You, almost exactly seven weeks ago: evidence does seem relatively likely to come in.

317

And? I have also said this:

And I have said that.

These are not conflicting statements.

I’ll also point you to this post:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21247875&postcount=103

318

May I introduce you to Sage Rat?

Oh, I see you’ve already met.

319

As with Birthers and Twoofers, one cannot be reasoned out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.

320

What is my position?

321

Yes, they are. They are, in fact, in direct contradiction. You have said that you believe that something will be found on Omar. You can only “find something” on someone who is guilty of something. Therefore, you in fact said that you believe she is guilty.

Now that no evidence has come to light, and the story has fallen out of the limelight, you are here trying to change what you said. Now you claim you didn’t accuse her of anything, when you very clearly did.

It’s understandable, but the reasons why are not pretty. At the surface level, you just don’t want to admit you were wrong, or even concede that you’re probably wrong. But I suspect something deeper is going on: that which kept the Birther movement going.

And one of the things that kept the Birther movement going was the fact that people would have to confront in their mind why they were so sure of something that had no evidence–why they dug in past the point when it was clear they were wrong. And they’d have to confront the fact that the person they believed the bad stuff about was brown.

Now, I’m not saying that is your reason, or even any particular Birther’s reason. But it was a factor in the Birther movement as a whole, and it is a factor in why this belief with Omar persists. And so every individual who believed either one has to confront at least the possibility that subconscious racism or bigotry played a part.

It would be so much easier if you could just believe that you never actually accused Omar of anything. That would make it where you didn’t have to question it.

My advice: realize that thoughts are not bad, and that, if you did have racist assumptions, then you just need to be more careful in the future. Beating yourself up is always pointless.

That’s my take, anyways. It’s the one where you come out looking the best. It would suck if you really were becoming a conspiracy nutter.