Ilhan Omar - A thread about her marriage and immigration history.

[Sage_Rat]

Sorry let me follow that previous post by also pointing out what I’ll call “trust in the system”.

If someone has been convicted in court or exonerated, my position would be that you should stand by that judgement. That is on the basis that, ultimately, mass media is not a proper court. The “court of public opinion” is a pejorative term for a reason. It’s not a system that can be trusted in its conclusions.

An actual court is good because a set of impartial jurors are given full and complete access to the underlying information and presented with both sides by talented professionals.

You’re not going to get any better than that. And while it may be that the person was ruled innocent on the basis of a lack of compelling evidence, rather than cleared by some evidence, we still need to accept and trust that this conclusion is as good as it gets. It could have come to the wrong answer, but the base assumption should be, as said, that you’re probably not going to somehow do better than that in coming to a conclusion.

You and I will never likely never meet, let alone talk with Ilhan Omar in any substantive way.

The people who work along side her and who are in fact her allies both have access to her and her way of thinking in private and they have strong motive to defend her and view her statements in the most positive and forgiving light.

In essence, we are talking about a jury where the jury is people that the defendant got to choose for himself.

If, in that scenario, you are publicly put to shame - that is about as trustworthy as it gets. The evidentiary side may be lower than a criminal court but, as said, the jury is your friends and allies.

The only other person who also been recently shamed in the same manner, it should be pointed out, is Steve King.

I’m quite willing to call King racist. I trust the system. Maybe the system got it wrong. Maybe they overreacted. But we’re not going to be able to come to a better conclusion than they did. If the system decided that King is racist, it makes the most sense to trust it if the conclusion matters. If I’m concerned about racism influencing Congress in a negative way, I would vote for someone who was not Steve King.

[GIGObuster]

@Sage_Rat

What evidence? Give an example. I’ve showed you two evidentiary items and your stance on one was that “water is wet” and the other was to go off on a tangent about marriage while looking at a business license. That makes no sense.

That is my line, not my problem that for some stupid reason you linked to them. Are you still insisting that was not evidence you presented?

@Sage_Rat

If you believe that I am using some particular piece of evidence:

a) Identify what you’re talking about.
b) Ask whether or not I am.

Nope, it is always the burden of the accuser to present the evidence, so far the one you think was important is useless for the issue at hand, or does not lead to what you concluded.

[Not_Carlson]

Good lord. This discussion’s back?

@Sage_Rat

Indeed. But, it’s more useful to the world for me to do what I’m doing.

For a historian who is deeply entranced by the mystery of Atlantis, there is going to be a giant sense of accomplishment in finding some proof pro or con that Atlantis is real.

For a teacher, giving his students the legend of Atlantis and pushing them to come to a logic and evidence based conclusion will be the thing that gives him a sense of accomplishment.

On this topic, I’m in the latter camp. I feel like it brings more to the world than the former.

If you’re in the latter camp, what you’ve been doing in this thread is equivalent to telling your students that there MAY WELL BE a lost city of Atlantis waiting to be discovered, but if not, it may be the lost kingdom of Utopia, or Lilliput, or Laputa. Anyway, it’s probably one of those.
Your “students” meanwhile, have been questioning why you’re insisting that they should be spending time studying fantasy in a history class.

I mean, if they ever do discover Atlantis, figuratively speaking, I’ll say “Holy shit, Mr. Sagerat was right! (But he was still one weird substitute teacher.)”
Till then, I won’t be submitting any reports on mythical kingdoms.

In short, no, what you’re doing is not useful to the world.

[Smapti]

@Not_Carlson

Good lord. This discussion’s back?

My thoughts exactly. This thread has crawled so far up its own ass I’m not even sure it’s about Congresswoman Omar anymore.

[Lance_Turbo]

@Sage_Rat

Her compatriots talked to her about the matter and, as an outcome of that, opted to perform an act of public shaming.

This is not remotely an accurate description of what happened.

Omar said something that a bunch of people pretended to be outraged by. Republican braying jackasses were calling for her to step down. Democrats morphed this call to action into a resolution condemning anti-semitism and anti-Islamic bigotry. All Democrats, including Omar, had no trouble supporting this resolution. Republicans were painted into a corner here. Most of them voted for the resolution so as not to blow the cover on their faux outrage against anti-semitism. Some couldn’t even do that like King (IA) and Gosar (AZ) among others.

This wasn’t a public shaming of Omar. She voted for it. Happily.

[Kimstu]

@SlackerInc

But Omar is not only a public figure but a public servant, and when her mainstream hometown newspaper asks these questions, she should answer them. If she doesn’t, she creates the impression that she is hiding things and stonewalling. That’s just the way it is.

SlackerInc, you have been telling us all along how much you dislike Omar and how you are hoping for, and to the best of your ability working toward, her political failure. And you expect anybody to believe you when you pretend to be offering honest advice about what Omar should do to boost her credibility?

Nah. I have no personal knowledge about the details of Omar’s marital history, and I am willing to believe that she committed some kind of fraud or impropriety if and when, and only if and when, solid evidence to that effect is credibly produced.

But believing that her credibility is in any way impaired just because you say so? It couldn’t be clearer that all you’re up to is disingenuous stirring of the shitkettle to attempt to discredit her in any way you can.

[Gyrate]

@Cheesesteak

It’s a plague upon our society, where actual information is ignored, and fantasies are believed. We as a society either stand up against this plague, and demand facts from these story tellers, or we feed the sickness by giving them the attention they don’t deserve.

QFT.

[Monty]

@Kimstu

SlackerInc, you have been telling us all along how much you dislike Omar and how you are hoping for, and to the best of your ability working toward, her political failure.

I probably will regret asking this, but here goes anyway. Is his dislike of Omar based at all on anything factual about the woman, or just on the innuendo?

[galen_ubal]

@Monty

I probably will regret asking this, but here goes anyway. Is his dislike of Omar based at all on anything factual about the woman, or just on the innuendo?

slackerinc is a racist, and a misogynist. Ilhan Omar is a brown woman. That’s all he needs.

[Annoyed]

Holy shit this thread. Tried to post it weeks ago, apparently had to wait for moderation approval? Gave it a few days and saw nothing in the forum so gave up and didn’t really follow up. Discovered it just now.

There are some MASSIVE hypocrites in this forum.

[Sage_Rat]

@Lance_Turbo

This wasn’t a public shaming of Omar. She voted for it. Happily.

He also voted for it. Happily.

[Monty]

@Annoyed

Holy shit this thread. Tried to post it weeks ago, apparently had to wait for moderation approval? Gave it a few days and saw nothing in the forum so gave up and didn’t really follow up. Discovered it just now.

Huh?

@Annoyed

There are some MASSIVE hypocrites in this forum.

Huh?

[simster]

@Monty

Huh?

Huh?

Ignore them - they’re just annoyed.

[Lance_Turbo]

@Sage_Rat

He also voted for it. Happily.

I don’t think you actually believe that.

[Annoyed]

@Monty

Huh?

Huh?

Thought I was pretty clear. Went to post this thread a few weeks ago, hit “post thread” button, a box came up saying the thread needed some kind of approval and/or review by moderation. Checked back a few times over a few days and never saw the thread and gave up. Haven’t checked back until today, where I discovered it’s eleven pages.

As for the second “huh” it’s rather simple. Some posters on here are galactic hypocrites. While the evidence presented in the OP was/is circumstantial, it certainly is enough to warrant an investigation/inquiry. Some posters in here vehemently deny any possibility that the accusation may be true favoring the argument of racism, while those same posters apparently have no issue believing anything negative about the politicians they dislike, no matter how circumstantial or blatantly false.

[Sage_Rat]

@Lance_Turbo

I don’t think you actually believe that.

Of course not. But I would suggest that there are a number of people on the right who would point to the supportive vote as proof that King isn’t racist. After all, anything else other than “from the horse’s mouth” would just be unfounded speculation without merit.

https://thedailynerv.com/accused-anti-semite-spoke-at-uf-41eea9b248a3

I leave it to others to find the connection.

[Guest-starring_Id]

@Annoyed

As for the second “huh” it’s rather simple. Some posters on here are galactic hypocrites. While the evidence presented in the OP was/is circumstantial, it certainly is enough to warrant an investigation/inquiry. Some posters in here vehemently deny any possibility that the accusation may be true favoring the argument of racism, while those same posters apparently have no issue believing anything negative about the politicians they dislike, no matter how circumstantial or blatantly false.

Cite.

[Monty]

@Annoyed

Thought I was pretty clear. Went to post this thread a few weeks ago, hit “post thread” button, a box came up saying the thread needed some kind of approval and/or review by moderation. Checked back a few times over a few days and never saw the thread and gave up. Haven’t checked back until today, where I discovered it’s eleven pages.

As for the second “huh” it’s rather simple. Some posters on here are galactic hypocrites. While the evidence presented in the OP was/is circumstantial, it certainly is enough to warrant an investigation/inquiry. Some posters in here vehemently deny any possibility that the accusation may be true favoring the argument of racism, while those same posters apparently have no issue believing anything negative about the politicians they dislike, no matter how circumstantial or blatantly false.

Your entire post is horseshit. Actually, your entire posting history is horseshit.

[Skywatcher]

@Smapti

This thread has crawled so far up its own ass I’m not even sure it’s about Congresswoman Omar anymore.

Apparently now it’s about Sage Rat trying to be James Burke.

[Annoyed]

@Monty

Your entire post is horseshit. Actually, your entire posting history is horseshit.

Touché, angry internet person.