# Iliad question. Any truth to those assertions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380 "2004-06-09T01:07:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/1 "2004-06-09T01:07:43Z")
From here: [http://www.lnreview.co.uk/media/journal/001835.php](http://www.lnreview.co.uk/media/journal/001835.php) > [@](#): > > Legend has it that our hero met Troilus, the nineteen-year-old son of King Priam, on the battlefield, and the insatiable Achilles, as he beheld the youngster grappling manfully, was overcome with Greek lust. As their thrusting swords met in furious clanks, the mighty Achilles, with his war-skirt tenting about his heroic loins, yelled: “I will kill you unless you yield to my caresses!” > > The young Trojan, fast realizing that he was no match for Achilles in combat, jumped at the offer, and suggested a secret meeting in a nearby Temple of Apollo. Ideal for a first date. > > And so it came about that the two men met in darkest night on holy ground. The son of Priam paced the Temple, nervous and confused. Was he being stood up? Suddenly, there was a movement in the shadows, a foreign grunt, and the urgent Achilles leapt upon the young Troilus, tore away his Trojan skirts, and ravaged him so lustfully that the poor fellow died. Raped to death by everyone’s favourite Greek hero. That’s no way to go. I have read Iliad many many years ago and I don’t remember anything like this. Is this excerpt from another book? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/2 "2004-06-09T03:40:51Z")
I’ve never heard that legend. Troilus doesn’t appear in the Iliad at all, as far as I know, and as far as other legends go, Troilus is usually described as being killed by Achilles in the normal sword/spear through the gut way, either on the field of battle, or when he’s claiming sanctuary in the temple of Apollo. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/3 "2004-06-09T03:53:40Z")
We studied the \*Iliad \* in our ancient Greek classes at school. I certainly don’t remember any such incident. Perhaps we had censored versions, but I think a male/male rape might have drawn some comment from the priest who was teaching us. As far as I remember, the references to Troilus in the \*Iliad \* are pretty scant. I think Priam mentions him towards the end when he’s lamenting the loss of so many of his sons during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/4 "2004-06-09T04:21:59Z")
Robert Graves, _The Greek Myths, volume 2_. Section 162 g. > [@](#): > > Now, the city was fated not to fall if Troilus could attain the age of twenty. Some say that Achilles fell in love with him as they fought together, and “I will kill you” he said, “unless you yield to my caresses!” Troilus fled and took sanctuary in the temple of Thymbraean Apollo; but Achilles cared nothing for the god’s wrath and since Troilus remained coy, beheaded him at the altar, the very place where he himself later perished.[sup]10[/sup] Others say that Achilles speared Troilus while he was exercising his horses in the temple precincts; or that he lured him out by offering a gift of doves, and that Troilus died with crushed ribs and livid face, in such bear-like fashion did Achilles make love. Others, again, say that Troilus sailed vengefully from Troy after the death of Memnon and encountered Achilles, who killed him - or else he was taken prisoner and then publicly slaughtered in cold blood at Achilles’s orders - and that, being then middle-aged, with a swarthy complexion and a flowing beard, he can hardly have excited Achilles’s passion. But whatever the manner of his death, Achilles caused it, and the Trojans mourned for him as grievously as for Hector.[sup]11[/sup] > > 1. First Vatican Mythographer: 210; Tzetzes: On Lycophron 307. > 2. Eustathius on Homer’s Iliad xxiv. 251, p.1348; Servius on Virgil’s Aeneid i. 478; Dictys Cretensis: iv. 9; Tzetzes: loc cit. All the sources appear to be commentary on the basic texts. Where they are drawing from I don’t know. Each contradicts the next, of course, so there is not even a consensus death myth to work with. Troilus did die at a result of Achilles’s rape in one version, but because of crushed ribs from a bear hug - a somewhat different image than the one given by the OP. The OP’s source also gets into the some say, others say game. If you get to cherry pick all the commentaries on all the mythic heroes you can come up with loads of gruesomeness, but you also don’t have to play that game and can come up with very different imagery. Depends what you want to believe and what point you are trying to make, in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/5 "2004-06-09T14:26:41Z")
In all accounts, Troilus is killed after Hector’s funeral. His death, therefore, does not occur in the Iliad, so that’s why you didn’t read about it in Homer (I can’t remember if Troilus is even mentioned in the Iliad–I’ll have to check on that). I wasn’t familiar with the rape version that Graves cited. In at least one version of the Trojan War, Troilus was a brave warrior who assumed Hector’s position as the Trojan commander. He is even said to have wounded Achilles before being slain himself. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/6 "2004-06-09T14:51:18Z")
Ah. Epic poetry slash. _O tempora! O mores!_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/7 "2004-06-09T15:10:34Z")
While on the topic - where does the “Achillies has necrophiliac sex with dead Amazon Queen” story come from? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iliad-question-any-truth-to-those-assertions/249380/8 "2004-06-09T15:16:03Z")
Richmond Lattimore’s translation of the _Iliad_, Book 24, lines 253-262 - King Priam is lamenting the death of Hektor, and berating his surviving children: > [@](#): > > Make haste, wicked children, my disgraces. I wish all of you > had been killed beside the running ships in the place of Hektor. > Ah me, for my evil destiny. I have had the noblest > of sons in Troy, but I say not one of them is left to me, > Mestor like a god and Troilos whose delight was in horses, > and Hektor, who was a god among men, for he did not seem like > one who was child of a mortal man, but of a god. All these > Ares has killed, and all that are left me are the disgraces, > the liars and the dancers, champions of the chorus, the plunderers > of their own people in their land of lambs and kids. According to the index, this is the only mention of Troilos in the _Iliad_.