As far as differentiating between the U.S. and EU, that’s not a very effective argument. How much control do the Feds have over State budgets? The EU raises funds from it’s member nations. Despite its different nature, it is collecting taxes to fund government function. You can’t possibly have thought it was running solely on voluntary donations.
I think we are talking past each other, here. The fact that the EU gets taxes to run the things you list isn’t the same thing as setting fiscal or tax POLICY for all member states. Just think about it from your cite…the EU, an entity that is larger than the US has a budget of €143 billion. The US has a budget of over $2 TRILLION. The US federal government sets fiscal and tax policy for the entire US. Sure, states have their own taxes (and so do local towns, cities, counties and the like), but those are for local needs and services. They are two totally different things.
Again, I’m not disputing that the EU had some government functions. Hell, they have an elected parliament and even a President, IIRC. My dispute is that while members have voluntarily given up SOME very specific sovereign rights, the EU as a whole doesn’t not have sovereign control of the member nations. The EU does not have a federal executive aspect…it’s one of the key things they lack to be a more integrated entity.
If you are unwilling to concede that the EU and its member states - jointly - exercise exclusive sovereignty within a defined territorial area, then I don’t know how we can reasonably discuss this. The precise ratio of apportionment of sovereignty within the territorty of a specific member state between the EU and that member state is not significant in my estimation.
It is also worth noting that, through the retention of overseas territories, the terrtitory of the EU is not simply co-terminous with that of all national territory held by the member states.
This subject is far too complex for me to offer a pithy, substantive citation to clearly refute your assertion, but the Wiki article on the Irish economic crisis and recovery is a good place to get an overview of the situation.
I think this is your best point, and I can’t simply hand-wave it away. I can only I say that I disagree that this is a significant point about Mr. Juncker’s objection.
I still don’t want Trump telling us commie Euro-types how to #MakeEuopeGreatAgain, especially if he tries breaking us up.
Yes, this is a long way - if ever - off. That said, US politicians should still stay the fuck out of it.
Well, whose laws is it that the UK is now going to have to furiously rewrite?
Indeed.
I guess we are. I suppose because I think of the EU almost like early Switzerland. And while you’re right it’s mostly a trade bloc, when “free trade” includes absolute movement of workers throughout? That’s pretty qualitative difference and a rather significant surrender of sovereignty to boot.
Except the EU laws do not apply to the UK of their own force, at least not according to the UK courts and Parliament. The EU laws apply to the UK because the UK, as a sovereign nation, decided to enact a statute that would give the EU laws force in the UK: European Communities Act. The UK, as a sovereign nation, could repeal that law tomorrow. The “rewrite” that you refer to is that the UK will have to decide which principles of EU law it wishes to keep and to enact directly, rather than rely on the incorporation by reference in the European Communities Act.
In short, the UK is a fully sovereign nation because it has ultimate control over the laws in force in the UK.
The EU is not sovereign because it has no direct legislative power over its member states. The EU laws only have force because each member state has agreed to give them force in that member state’s legal system.
That’s completely different from the situation of states and provinces in federations like Canada and the United States. Federal laws apply of their own force throughout the federation. They do not depend in any way on the actions of the provinces/states to make the federal laws effective, and the states/provinces cannot prevent the federal laws from applying. (See the Nullification Debate in the United States.) The federal governments have sovereign powers, unlike the EU.
Because the states and provinces cannot affect federal law, the comparison of the UK to states/provinces simply does not work.