# I'll give it a shot in here...2nd amendments rights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401 "2020-01-14T13:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/21 "2020-01-14T19:47:05Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I hope this is on target enough. > > Just spoke last week to a guy who went up to Canada last summer to do some hunting. Had a rifle in his trunk and an NRA sticker on his car. The Canadians held him up a couple of hours at the border before letting him in. They don’t like guns coming into their country from the USA. Just to clarify a bit more; It’s not that Canada “doesn’t like” guns coming into the country. It’s just that we have different laws here, seeing as we are a completely different country and all. Hunters are more than welcome to bring rifles into Canada for sport hunting. They merely have to follow our laws. It’s not rocket science. Protip: It’s a poor idea to try to smuggle a weapon across an international border, and then claim you have a “right” to do so in that foreign country. It will not end well for you. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/22 "2020-01-14T20:23:28Z")
Do you think people should be able to buy heavy machine guns at walmart? What about sarin gas? Mortars and mortar rounds? Where does weapons control begin and end? It isn’t a question of whether we have weapons control, its a question of how far weapons control goes. For the most part in the US, you can buy pistols, semi auto rifles, bolt action rifles and shotguns fairly easily. You can get a class III permit to buy silencers and machine guns, but a lot of people don’t bother with that. As for your question why would people disarm, you’re assuming gun control and disarming are the same thing. Certain forms of gun control like limiting CCW permits, universal background checks and prohibiting guns from being sold to people with violent misdemeanors reduce gun homicide rates without really affecting gun ownership as a whole. [https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/04/gun-control-firearms-law-deaths-shooting-state-data-research/586363/](https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/04/gun-control-firearms-law-deaths-shooting-state-data-research/586363/) > [@](#): > > It’s not just that gun control works—and it does, according to the study—it’s that particular kinds of gun-control measures are significantly more effective than others. In fact, three types of restrictions are most effective, individually and in combination, in reducing the overall homicide rate. They are: universal background checks, bans on violent offenders purchasing guns, and “may-issue” laws (which give police discretion in issuing concealed-carry permits). > > Universal background checks are associated with a nearly 15 percent drop in the homicide rate. Measures that prohibit people who committed a violent crime from owning a handgun are associated with an even larger reduction in homicide, 18 percent. Conversely, requiring police to approve concealed-carry permits unless the applicant meets explicitly stated exclusion criteria—so-called “shall-issue” laws—are associated with a nearly 10 percent higher homicide rate. None of the other seven firearm laws had a statistically significant association with the homicide rate when controlling for other factors As to your question as to why would a nation totally disarm, it depends. Guns from the US flood mexico and are helping cause death in their drug war. If semi auto rifles were illegal here maybe the Mexican death rate would go down. There is also the fact that small arms generally aren’t too useful at fighting against a domestic oppressive government. They had a role in the civil rights era (black people using small arms to hold off the KKK and police), but for the most part it was legislation that improved civil rights in the US, not guns. Even if the government is totalitarian, things like IEDs seem more effective than small arms at making an occupying force want to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/23 "2020-01-14T21:13:35Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Sorry about that > > Its the occasional news coverage that discusses how there may be gun control/confiscation could be in our future. Also how the lawmakers think or even can have discussions about it. (taking all guns from the citizens) You keep linking gun control and gun confiscation as if one were the other. Leaving out gun confiscation, are you opposed to _all_ gun control? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/24 "2020-01-14T21:21:13Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Why would anyone (any majority) want to give up their weapons? Have a look at other democratic countries that do have strict gun control. Here in England for example, you’re not allowed a gun for home defence. 😕 Even our beat police are not armed. :eek: These policies are immensely popular here. One result of this is that we don’t have school shootings. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/25 "2020-01-15T01:00:15Z")
I’m confused at some of the responses saying that nobody wants gun confiscation. President Obama and others on the left have held out Australian gun laws as good examples. That was gun confiscation. Turn them in for money, or else… Or are we doing the same thing again where we have thirteen pages of back and forth that since some guns are still allowed in Australia then that doesn’t count as gun confiscation or a “gun ban”? If so, I would rather not do that again. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/26 "2020-01-15T01:22:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > For the most part in the US, you can buy pistols, semi auto rifles, bolt action rifles and shotguns fairly easily. You can get a class III permit to buy silencers and machine guns, but a lot of people don’t bother with that. You don’t need a special permit to buy Title II firearms, there’s a $200 fee and an extensive background check (which may not be possible to get in certain jurisdictions) necessary. A Class 3 permit is required by the FFL selling it to you, but isn’t required for the buyer. > [@glee](#): > > Here in England for example, you’re not allowed a gun for home defence. > Even our beat police are not armed. > These policies are immensely popular here. > One result of this is that we don’t have school shootings. You may not have school shootings, but you have more knife attacks per capita than the US has firearms attacks. Then again, the UK also just has a much lower rate of violent crime altogether, which suggests that there are cultural issues reflected in the US’s gun violence issues more than just legalization. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/27 "2020-01-15T05:03:56Z")
Who to worry about? The current POTUS twice tweeted, _Confiscate guns now. due process later._ Was he only joking, ha ha? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/28 "2020-01-15T06:28:14Z")
> [@riorico](#): > > who to worry about? The current potus twice tweeted, _confiscate guns now. Due process later._ was he only joking, ha ha? iokwardi ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/29 "2020-01-15T06:42:15Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m confused at some of the responses saying that nobody wants gun confiscation. President Obama and others on the left have held out Australian gun laws as good examples. That was gun confiscation. Turn them in for money, or else… > > Or are we doing the same thing again where we have thirteen pages of back and forth that since some guns are still allowed in Australia then that doesn’t count as gun confiscation or a “gun ban”? If so, I would rather not do that again. How about we instead discuss what Obama said? He said _“When Australia had a mass killing, I think it was in Tasmania about 25 years ago, it was just so shocking to the system, the entire country said, ‘We’re going to completely change our gun laws.’ They did and it hasn’t happened since.”_ In the same interview, he went on to say _“New laws need to respect the traditions of gun ownership in the US. The question is just, ‘Is there a way of accommodating that legitimate set of traditions with some commonsense stuff that prevents a 21-year-old who is angry about something or confused about something, or is racist, or is deranged, from going into a gun store and suddenly is packing and can do enormous harm?’”_ In a subsequent interview, Obama said, _“We know that other countries in response to one mass shooting have managed to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. Friends of ours, allies of ours, Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours. So we know there are ways to prevent it.”_ Nowhere in this do I see Obama calling for gun confiscation. He’s saying we should enact some form of gun control while specifically saying he does not want to abolish gun ownership. So I see this as yet another attempt to scare gun owners with a threat that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/30 "2020-01-15T07:08:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How about we instead discuss what Obama said? > > He said _“When Australia had a mass killing, I think it was in Tasmania about 25 years ago, it was just so shocking to the system, the entire country said, ‘We’re going to completely change our gun laws.’ They did and it hasn’t happened since.”_ > > In the same interview, he went on to say _“New laws need to respect the traditions of gun ownership in the US. The question is just, ‘Is there a way of accommodating that legitimate set of traditions with some commonsense stuff that prevents a 21-year-old who is angry about something or confused about something, or is racist, or is deranged, from going into a gun store and suddenly is packing and can do enormous harm?’”_ > > In a subsequent interview, Obama said, _“We know that other countries in response to one mass shooting have managed to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. Friends of ours, allies of ours, Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours. So we know there are ways to prevent it.”_ > > Nowhere in this do I see Obama calling for gun confiscation. He’s saying we should enact some form of gun control while specifically saying he does not want to abolish gun ownership. > > So I see this as yet another attempt to scare gun owners with a threat that doesn’t exist. It sounds to me, with very little implication or reading between the lines, that he is speaking with approval of gun laws in Australia and the UK while saying that he will let you keep granddaddy’s old squirrel gun ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/31 "2020-01-15T07:54:32Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I’m certain we’d all love to see your cites for this and their sources. I’d certainly like to see a cite for this claim by _you_, **DCnDC**. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/32 "2020-01-15T12:23:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d certainly like to see a cite for this claim by _you_, **DCnDC**. [https://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+confiscation](https://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+confiscation) I looked through to page 15 and still didn’t see any legit news sites. Saw a whole lot of breitbart, washingtonexaminer, and crap like [www.nraila.org](http://www.nraila.org) and [www.gunconfiscation.com](http://www.gunconfiscation.com). Willing to bet the “occasional news coverage” the OP was referring to was from one of these sites, but I guess we’ll never know because the OP never provided any cites at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/33 "2020-01-15T13:27:15Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > **When I hear about gun control, gun confiscation, I just shake my head in confusion, how can it even happen?** \*\* First of all, there has never been, nor will there ever be any government effort to confiscate all the citizen owned guns in this country. That is an NRA led right wing scare tactic designed to panic people and close their minds to any and all efforts to establish sane gun control. Why are you shaking your head in confusion? Cars are registered; drivers are trained and licensed; proper use of automobiles is required and enforced. Does that confuse you? Do you not see the need for sane control? Right now, I can drive to Indiana, attend a “gun show”, buy heavy weaponry with cash out of a suitcase, be tracked by zero paper work, and drive back to Chicago and sell them clandestinely with no way to be tracked. You see no need to close loopholes like that? Read this and tell me if you are still “shaking your head in confusion” when you’re done: [\*\*What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S. \*\*](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) > [@](#): > > In 2017, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 39,773 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC. This figure includes gun murders and gun suicides, along with three other, less common types of gun-related deaths tracked by the CDC: those that were unintentional, involved law enforcement or whose circumstances could not be determined. It excludes deaths in which gunshot injuries played a contributing, but not principal, role. (CDC fatality statistics are based on information contained in death certificates.) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/34 "2020-01-15T13:28:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It sounds to me, with very little implication or reading between the lines, that he is speaking with approval of gun laws in Australia and the UK while saying that he will let you keep granddaddy’s old squirrel gun To put a rather thick point on it, in [Australia](https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2019/aug/19/matt-gaetz/fact-checking-matt-gaetz-gun-bans-australia-and-ve/) and the [UK](https://www.newsweek.com/britains-gun-laws-who-can-own-firearm-471473), they DID keep their granddaddy’s old squirrel guns. [Gun ownership rates](http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/gun-ownership-by-country/) are fairly high in Australia compared to other developed nations and still higher than most Asian nations in the UK. It’s not a matter of “still” owning some guns. Australians own a LOT of guns compared to most nations. But certainly not assault style rifles and a very limited number of shotguns. The notion either nation confiscated guns in the manner feared by the loons is completely unsupported by the facts. It is totally at odds with reality. Seems like you are fighting both letter and spirit of what Obama, for one, said on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/35 "2020-01-15T14:34:18Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Yes, if someone is telling you that there are people who are going to confiscate your guns, they are lying to you to get you upset so that you will vote the way they want you to vote and/or send money to them. > > It is as simple as that. I never thought gay marriage would legalized. I never thought men would be allowed to use the female bathrooms. I never thought we would have de facto open borders and sanctuary cities. You get the picture. The unthinkable has happened. Total gun confiscation is a certainly a possibility. Remember first they take away your second amendment rights so they can take away your first amendment rights. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/36 "2020-01-15T14:40:34Z")
Believing you would imply that free speech cannot exist in any country that doesn’t have more guns than people. I find that… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/37 "2020-01-15T15:25:15Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Remember first they take away your second amendment rights so they can take away your first amendment rights. There aren’t enough rolleyes in the world for this turd of a comment. You forgot to mention that Stalin and Hitler confiscated guns. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/38 "2020-01-15T15:36:57Z")
Perhaps I am a pedant after all. > [@DCnDC](#): > > > [@septimus](#): > > > > > [@DCnDC](#): > > > > > > _ **I’m certain we’d all love to see** _ … [emphasis by sgs7] > > > > I’d certainly like to see a cite for this claim by you, DCnDC. > > [https://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+confiscation](https://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+confiscation) Your LMGTFY was not responsive to the cite I requested. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/39 "2020-01-15T15:38:15Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > I never thought gay marriage would legalized. > I never thought men would be allowed to use the female bathrooms. > I never thought we would have de facto open borders and sanctuary cities. > You get the picture. The unthinkable has happened. > > Total gun confiscation is a certainly a possibility. Threads like this one, and especially posts like this one, have convinced me that we SHOULD be pushing for comprehensive bans on guns, including confiscation. The pro-gun viewpoint is so detached from reality (“de facto open borders” - do you have a cite for this?) that taking their paranoid whining into account is pointless. They will fight us tooth and nail to prevent “common sense gun control” from passing; so why pander to them in the first place? > [@](#): > > Remember first they take away your second amendment rights so they can take away your first amendment rights. This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. It would be hillarious, if it wasn’t terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401/40 "2020-01-15T16:50:48Z")
The US Constitution was written for very good reasons and I don’t think we should accept any infringement of our constitutional rights. The 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments are routinely violated and we should not accept that. The second amendment is indeed very important. Every human should have the right to defend themselves. For those that argue that citizens shouldn’t own weapons the government has, the government serves the people, not the other way around. The government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” “the people” is all of us. You can choose to exercise that right or not, but do not try to take that right away from other people just because of your fears or opinions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-give-it-a-shot-in-here-2nd-amendments-rights/846401.md?page=3)