# I'll go to hell if I want to go to hell! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553 "2017-02-11T16:37:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/61 "2017-02-14T20:04:28Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Nothing you said addressed my point. > > OBVIOUSLY, you have no obligation to listen if I try to preach to you. If you tell me to get lost, I should leave. > > But my motivations for preaching are as simple as they seem. No need to scratch your head wondering “What’s his angle?” I’m scratching my head because trying “save” me before showing me that I need to be saved in the first place is asinine, no matter what your opinion of the subject is, and trying to do it using in-house lingo is doubly so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/62 "2017-02-14T20:11:17Z")
By the way-Why do _I_ need saving? Because I am an individual? Why not go en mass to a church of a different faith and try to “save” _them_ during their service? You might get a whole bunch of them that way, and they are already predisposed to believe in gods anyway. If it’s because of some sort of courtesy churches show to one another, then please show the same courtesy to us individuals. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/63 "2017-02-14T22:36:44Z")
Certain religious practices harm people here and now. Whether someone goes to Hell or not doesn’t affect anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/64 "2017-02-15T00:40:32Z")
Hugh Hefner famously said, “If a man has a right to find God in his own way, he has a right to go to the devil in his own way also.” (And if you really love me, don’t ring my doorbell at 8:00 a.m. on Sunday morning!) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/65 "2017-02-15T02:49:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > This is one of the more heart-breaking aspects of addiction: the addict cannot be helped until and unless they **want it** for themselves. Pushing religion on an addict who doesn’t want it is pointless. Yes but let us not assume that nobody is ready. Besides with God all things are possible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/66 "2017-02-15T04:02:02Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Yes but let us not assume that nobody is ready. Besides with God all things are possible. Which God? ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/67 "2017-02-15T14:44:11Z")
I once attended a funeral at a fundamentalist church where the preacher was much more interested in espousing his views than honoring the deceased. He stated that, according to Revelations, only 144,000 people would be in heaven. (Google “144000” for more info.) It seems to me that if that’s your belief, it would be to your benefit to keep your One True Religion as secret as possible; the competition for a spot in heaven is going to be fierce. The preacher also stated that the Bible specified the size of heaven – which was pretty small (I forget the measurements). I couldn’t help wondering why God bothered to create the universe if the Saved only need a city the size of Pasadena. Perhaps the universe will be needed to hold the damned. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/68 "2017-02-15T19:57:39Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > One other quick note - It is often difficult for atheists to accept that True Believers actually believe the things that they say that they believe. And, the reason is that it’s all so completely irrational. But, the weird truth is that, the vast majority of the time, the True Believers really do, in fact, believe the things that they say that they believe. They really do. No, speaking for myself, I’m sure they believe what they say. I just don’t agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/69 "2017-02-15T20:24:05Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > I am. Thread title was meant to attract attention. > > None of the responses have surprised me much. I am particularly interested in actual church doctrine (i.e. The LDS effort to baptise the dead) and what impact followers believe such efforts will make in cementing their spot in heaven. To echo an earlier response, it’s love. Love meaning wanting for others what God wants for them, to be happy and live with Him forever. It’s because it’s Good News and you want to share it. And it’s because of the earlier commission, to spread the good news to all. I would witness if I am asked but I wouldn’t do it to win a spot in heaven! It would be because I am asked to tell the truth and that’s the Truth. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/70 "2017-02-15T21:15:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Richard Dawkins can(and does) show show verifiable evidence for the claims he makes-he doesn’t ask anyone to rely on blind faith. If you want to claim that you are trying to save me from Hell or make sure I make it into Heaven the very least you should be required to do is: > > 1. Show me evidence that the Heaven and/or Hell exists, _and_ > 2. Show me evidence that _your_ way is the right way, as opposed to all the others. > > You can claim that you are trying to show me the only way out of a burning theatre, but I’m not seeing any fire in this building with 5,000 exits, so if you don’t mind I’m going to stick round and enjoy the show. This response appears to be shift the goalposts a bit. The original question was what was the motivations of those believers who want to save someone’s soul and what was in it for them. Whether or not you think they aren’t doing a good job trying to prove their point is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/71 "2017-02-16T00:33:31Z")
> [@ioioio](#): > > . . . The preacher also stated that the Bible specified the size of heaven – which was pretty small . . . The gates of heaven are made of twelve pearls. Twelve GINORMOUS pearls. Were there actual oysters that size that the pearls came from? Or did God just magic them out of nowhere? If so, why pearls? Why not, y’know, magical God-stuff, like sparlies in lucite, or whatever. Why twelve pearls? Why not just one really big one? Taking this stuff literally is beyond hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/72 "2017-02-16T03:00:45Z")
I’ve heard the phrase “pearly gates”, but never before did I think that the gates would’ve actually been created from huge pearls. Looked it up on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearly_gates). Wholly high weirdness, Batman! Deep waters, indeed… ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/73 "2017-02-16T11:40:09Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > None of the responses have surprised me much. I am particularly interested in actual church doctrine (i.e. The LDS effort to baptise the dead) and what impact followers believe such efforts will make in cementing their spot in heaven. The LDS efforts are different than proselytizing by evangelical Christians, as Mormons believe in works more than faith and doing “temple work” for the dead is an essential requirement in order to get into the Mormon version of heaven. Baptism for the dead is only the first stage, they also perform what is called an endowment ceremony, an essential ordinance in the eternal progression of man and which allows people to eventually become gods and goddesses. In the endowments, you learn the secret signs which allow you to pass into heaven. After one has gone through the temple for oneself, then all subsequent visits must be done as a proxy for dead people. Regular temple attendance and the subsequent the proxy work for the dead is strongly encouraged and will be taken into consideration during the final judgement to determine which of the various Mormon heavens one can enter. There is an fundamental divide within Mormons between those who are “temple worthy” i.e., those who follow the rules, pay tithing, abstain from coffee and alcohol, etc., and those who do not. Mormons are encouraged to do the temple work for their ancestors, but in cases such as my family, all the identifiable ancestors have already had their temple work done. Volunteers go through various genealogical records and gather names for the temple work. The work is generally not supervised, which is why problems occur such as the doing proxy work for the Jewish Holocaust victims. Even Hitler’s temple work has been done and he has been married to Eva Braun along with many other historical figures. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/74 "2017-02-16T12:03:45Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Even Hitler’s temple work has been done and he has been married to Eva Braun along with many other historical figures. How many historical figures have married Eva Braun? Maybe Hitler wasn’t exactly an attentive husband in this world. But, in the afterlife, you’d think he’d have more time for such things. (There being far fewer Jews in Catholic heaven than in this world.) ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/75 "2017-02-16T12:06:52Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Even Hitler’s temple work has been done and he has been married to Eva Braun along with many other historical figures. Or, maybe I got that backwards, and you are saying that in the afterlife Hitler married many historical figures? I suppose… I’d think he’d owe at least the first century to Eva Braun to make up for his general piggishness during their time on Earth. Either way around, no matter who married all of the historical figures, Mormon heaven sounds like an interesting place. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/76 "2017-02-16T12:15:03Z")
> [@ioioio](#): > > The preacher also stated that the Bible specified the size of heaven – which was pretty small (I forget the measurements). I couldn’t help wondering why God bothered to create the universe if the Saved only need a city the size of Pasadena. I think that you are misremembering. Heaven is supposed to be [a cube around 1,500 miles on a side](http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm). If each resident was given 10,000 square feet of living space and each floor is 20 feet high, then that would leave room for more than two thousand trillion residents, with plenty of room left over for public spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/77 "2017-02-16T14:44:45Z")
I love talking to these people just to see how crazy their statements will become. When I told one street evangelist that I couldn’t join a Christian religion because I’d have to cut off all contact with my sister the hardcore feminist lesbian, she replied “Well, if you get a relationship with Jehovah and your sister sees how happy you’ve become, it will cure her homosexuality.” ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/78 "2017-02-16T15:55:30Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > Or, maybe I got that backwards, and you are saying that in the afterlife Hitler married many historical figures? I suppose… I’d think he’d owe at least the first century to Eva Braun to make up for his general piggishness during their time on Earth. > > Either way around, no matter who married all of the historical figures, Mormon heaven sounds like an interesting place. Blah. Bad writing. Hitler and other historical figures, both good and bad, have had their temple work done. Hitler was married in proxy to Eva. Although past Mormon prophets have taught that polygamy is a requirement for heaven, no polygamous wives have been married in proxy to Hitler. Mormon doctrine is not particularly clear on cases like this. Temple work was done for Buddha, including being married in proxy to a “Mrs. Buddha.” There apparently isn’t much oversight in the process. Some of my ancestors were done a number of times because their names were submitted by different people. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553/79 "2017-02-16T19:54:28Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I love talking to these people just to see how crazy their statements will become. When I told one street evangelist that I couldn’t join a Christian religion because I’d have to cut off all contact with my sister the hardcore feminist lesbian, she replied “Well, if you get a relationship with Jehovah and your sister sees how happy you’ve become, it will cure her homosexuality.” [aside]If Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes, why can’t you hang out with feminist lesbians? What’s with this Christian idea that you have to shun sinners, anyway? I thought you’re not even supposed to worry about who the sinners are, that you’re supposed to pluck your eyes out rather than judge one another.[/aside] Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-go-to-hell-if-i-want-to-go-to-hell/779553.md?page=3)