# I'll keep my Trump-voting cousin, if you don't mind **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 13, 2024, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183 "2024-11-13T04:22:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/201 "2024-11-15T19:24:54Z")
I strongly suspect he voted in his perceived self interest. He believes he will have more money in his pocket if Trump is elected. The extent to which this is due to inflation, taxation, or other more complicated trade issues which may have a personal effect on him (his wife is part owner of a large manufacturing company in another country), I do not know. And that’s all I’m going to say on the issue. I don’t mind putting words in his mouth if I’m pretty sure I know that’s what he’d say, but it’s not like we sit around with copies of the Republican and Democratic platforms and go through them point by point. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/202 "2024-11-15T19:24:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If only you had said something more believable like “few” instead of “I’ve never heard a single one of them”. If you find it impossible to find the haters, your ability to see what the fuck is going on is either seriously in doubt, or you live an extremely sheltered life I’m clearly referring to the people I know in my personal life. Obviously I have seen online influencers or Proud Boys on the news who clearly ARE coming from a place of hate, but none of the Trump supporters I know in my own life are like that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/203 "2024-11-15T19:38:49Z")
Once again, it doesn’t especially matter what a person says are their reasons for supporting Trump, if we’re figuring out what they’re actually supporting: > [@](#): > > Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. > > That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives anymore. > > They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding? The only reason it matters what they state is if you can use it as leverage for pulling them away from Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/204 "2024-11-15T19:39:13Z")
By voting for Trump, a man that attempted to end representative democracy, those people have already declared that they don’t care about me. They’re just too cowardly to admit it. Demanding the same relationship afterwards is gaslighting and abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/205 "2024-11-15T19:43:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Once again, it doesn’t especially matter what a person says are their reasons for supporting Trump, if we’re figuring out what they’re actually supporting: You keep saying you want to talk about _what they are actually supporting_ but then you talk about Hitler and the Nazis. Trump is very, very bad. He is not Hitler. MAGA is very, very bad. It is not Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/206 "2024-11-15T19:44:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Trump is very, very bad. He is not Hitler. MAGA is very, very bad. It is not Nazism. I’m not willing to say that he’s not as bad as Hitler _in potential_. If we don’t figure out how to constrain him, I think he presents the sort of existential threat Hitler presented. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/207 "2024-11-15T19:46:14Z")
To be fair, whenever any Republican ran for office they were called Nazi or fascist since at least Goldwater’s time. Crying wolf has its consequences. Now, if you really believe that you and billions of others are in mortal danger, then why are you wasting your precious time spamming a message board instead of doing something about it? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/208 "2024-11-15T19:49:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > To be fair, whenever any Republican ran for office they were called Nazi or fascist since at least Goldwater’s time. Crying wolf has its consequences. Mike Godwin may only be a pop culture name, but it is still worth hearing his take on this issue. He is far from alone in his thinking [wasn’t paywalled for me]: [**Opinion Yes, it’s okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don’t let me stop you. (WaPo)**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/20/godwins-law-trump-hitler-comparisons/) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/209 "2024-11-15T19:51:58Z")
I said nothing about that cliche. I said crying wolf has its consequences. Regardless of the accuracy or not of calling the Glorious Orange One a fascist or a Nazi, the impact is diluted by the hysterical and disingenuous overuse of the term for generations. Der Trihs’s rhetoric is not in any way new or uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/210 "2024-11-15T19:53:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Trump is very, very bad. He is not Hitler. MAGA is very, very bad. It is not Nazism. > > I’m not willing to say that he’s not as bad as Hitler _in potential_. If we don’t figure out how to constrain him, I think he presents the sort of existential threat Hitler presented That might be true, but I doubt it. Trump has always struck me as closer to a Grachii Brother than a Caesar or even a Sulla. In terms of actual harm caused by his policies, I think he will be similar to his first term. The real harm has already been done. We have rewarded the perpetrators of Jan 6 with reelection, thus delegitimizing our entire system of government and the principle of peaceful transfer of power. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/211 "2024-11-15T19:54:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > To be fair, whenever any Republican ran for office they were called Nazi or fascist since at least Goldwater’s time. To be fair, this is absolute bullshit. And to be fair, it is nothing that we didn’t expect from you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/212 "2024-11-15T19:54:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Der Trihs’s rhetoric is not in any way new or uncommon. Even for him in particular. He’s been beating this particular horse for at least 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/213 "2024-11-15T19:54:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I said crying wolf has its consequences. Godwin speaks to that in his op-ed piece. That’s why I linked to it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/214 "2024-11-15T19:56:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That might be true, but I doubt it. Trump has always struck me as closer to a Grachii Brother than a Caesar or even a Sulla. In terms of actual harm caused by his policies, I think he will be similar to his first term. I hope you’re right–but I think the people driving the clown car have spent the last eight years figuring out how to drive it better, and I’m deeply, deeply concerned at what they’ve learned. Trump with full control of the legislative and judicial branches and with the backing of Project 2025 has potential to enact some full-on horrors. If he’s going to be stopped, it’s going to require some pretty serious effort from folks who aren’t okay with fascism, and there’s fewer of us than I thought. We need to be very strategy-minded, and not let our spleens control our decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/215 "2024-11-15T19:58:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So you think that 76 million Americans woke up and said, “what this country needs more of us rape, persecution, and mass murder”? No, I’m saying that regardless of what they _thought_ they were supporting when they filled out their ballots, what they were _actually_ supporting was rape and political persecution. I explicitly said that _twice_ in my last post, which wasn’t all that long, so the fact that you missed it both times makes me question how accurate your understanding of the motives of your Trump voting acquaintances actually is. > [@Babale](#): > > I know quite a few Trump supporters, and some have told me why they support Trump. I’ve never heard a single one of them support mass murder, or rape. Unless you know 37,000,001 Trump supporters, and have talked to each individually, you don’t know what “most” Trump supporters actually support. Me, I’m going to keep going with the assumption that the reason most Trump voters supported him, is because they supported the things he ran on, which included massive amounts of sexism, homophobia, transphobia, and good old fashioned racism. I’m sure it makes you more comfortable to believe that “most” Trump voters don’t agree with that stuff, but I find that pretty unconvincing. It’s not like Trump was secretive about that shit, or that it wasn’t covered adequately in the media. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/216 "2024-11-15T19:59:03Z")
It is paywalled for me. So, I couldn’t read it. Point is, if you want words to mean something use them appropriately. Everyone is prone to hyperbole now and then. But a constant drum beat that everyone to the right of Chairman Mao is literally Hitler is counterproductive. At some point, the left has to realize that most people don’t like being the target of disgust or condescension and that such attitudes are repellant to the degree that they will chase off potential allies. Furthermore, if the left were right, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. Nor would all the talking heads in left of center media be having the same sort of debate. Double down if you wish. You think that will be helpful in 2026, 2028 or beyond? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/217 "2024-11-15T20:00:59Z")
Okay, Octo. So … sit up and pay attention _now_. That’s all anybody can do … _now._ Don’t blame your blind spots on Every Liberal Who Ever Lived. Besides, the problem you cite is a Trump _tactic._ Steve Bannon lovingly calls it ‘flooding the zone with shit.’ It’s time to pay attention. Recriminations for having cried wolf can _definitely_ wait. ETA: Also, because _your_ straw man contentions about what other people think _could_ happen, and when, haven’t come true only means that your straw man argument went by the wayside. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/218 "2024-11-15T20:03:50Z")
Hey, I don’t have a blind spot with regards to Trump. I didn’t vote for him. Not that that has ANY relevance to factual discourse. But if you think the tactics of intellectual heavyweights such as Der Trihs and Czarcasm are the key to Democratic or progressive dominance in Western civilization keep on keeping on. And, um, it’s not actually a fallacy when you are responding to the actual strawman… ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/219 "2024-11-15T20:05:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But if you think the tactics of intellectual heavyweights such as Der Trihs and Czarcasm are the key to Democratic or progressive dominance in Western civilization Can I ask you on what basis you premised your statement on that?? Feels like … you just made it right up, no? We need more intellectually honest conservatives _on this board and in this country._ Truly, we do. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183/220 "2024-11-15T20:06:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And, um, it’s not actually a fallacy when you are responding to the actual strawman… Sure it is. You’re just making up other people’s arguments: > [@octopus](#): > > Furthermore, if the left were right, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. Nor would all the talking heads in left of center media be having the same sort of debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-keep-my-trump-voting-cousin-if-you-dont-mind/1010183.md?page=12)