# "I'll pray for you." Management Says "Not On My Watch!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109 "2023-04-03T23:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/61 "2023-04-04T19:09:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But it’s sort of annoying that there’s no similar way to casually assert my atheism that doesn’t come off as being a jerk. “I heard your mom has cancer. Her existence had no purpose or meaning beyond that which you personally assign it,” doesn’t come off very well. Eh, state the positive. “I heard your mom has cancer. That must be really rough for you. It’s always hard when misfortune comes to those close to us.” The important part isn’t “there’s no immortal soul”. The important part is “our relationships with other people are central to our lives.” ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/62 "2023-04-04T19:10:35Z")
There are some things that can be thought of as minor courtesy gestures to show other people that you view them as worthy of polite behavior. Saying “bless you” is one, that really holds no instrinsic value other than showcasing politeness. Holding doors open for people is another, because although that can have some utility many times people will hold doors open for others from quite a distance away. I wouldnt tell them to shut the door, because I have 2 hands and I can open my own doors. Likewise, I wouldnt tell somebody not to say “bless you” when I sneeze because there is no God, even though that is my conviction. I say bless you because it is a polite social convention, and I definitely say thank you if someone says it to me. I never feel like a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/63 "2023-04-04T19:14:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Eh, state the positive. “I heard your mom has cancer. That must be really rough for you. It’s always hard when misfortune comes to those close to us.” My point is there’s no way to express condolences _in a way that’s explicitly atheistic_ that’s socially acceptable. Obviously, I know how to express non-religious condolences without sounding like an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/64 "2023-04-04T19:15:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I dislike it because it’s a passive aggressive way to co-opt my agreement that praying is a legitimate, useful action to take in difficult situations. As a non-believer, nothing could be further from my reality. > > I can’t say I’m offended, though. It’s not the most offensive thing I’m likely to encounter regularly. My typical response these days is to simply offer a big smile and say, “Knock yourself out!” I look at “I’ll pray for you” in the same way. That is to say. I don’t literally expect them to ask an invisible man in the sky on behalf any more that I would expect them to bop themselves on the head with a mallet. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/65 "2023-04-04T19:17:56Z")
I know both Jews and Christians who have literally mentioned the name of a sick person at their prayer service. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/66 "2023-04-04T19:20:48Z")
I’m assuming that like most atheists, you care more about the stuff you do believe in than about the stuff you don’t believe in. So it kinda matters more to Christians to bring up Jesus than it matters to most atheists to bring up “not-Jesus”. I do like that in a court of law you can choose to “affirm” instead of swearing. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/67 "2023-04-04T19:39:55Z")
When I had cancer, members of the Jewish community **asked me** if **I would like** to be on the prayer list. That was reasonable and welcome. When my father died, my boss earnestly told me that he was in heaven, looking down and holding me in his arms. That was **not** okay. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/68 "2023-04-04T19:40:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m assuming that like most atheists, you care more about the stuff you do believe in than about the stuff you don’t believe in. So it kinda matters more to Christians to bring up Jesus than it matters to most atheists to bring up “not-Jesus”. Well, that’s the thing. It is kind of important that people remember that atheists exist, and that they probably interact with multiple atheists a day. Visibility is an important part of protecting the rights of any minority, and atheists are a minority that aren’t terribly well like by a lot of people. And visibility is hard for atheists, because as a group we’re defined by something we don’t do. It’d be nice if there were some socially acceptable way of casually asserting atheism that wasn’t perceived as jerkish, but that’s just functionally hard to do, and not entirely because of religious hegemony - it’s not Christianity’s fault that my tongue-in-cheek “atheist condolence” is inappropriate, atheism just sucks as a way of offering emotional comfort to people. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/69 "2023-04-04T19:42:04Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Holding doors open for people is another, because although that can have some utility many times people will hold doors open for others from quite a distance away. I wouldnt tell them to shut the door, because I have 2 hands and I can open my own doors. Hopefully, I’m not taking this bit out of context. If the “Inveterate Door Holders” were organized, well funded, and had a pretty clear political agenda (the way Christianity in America basically is), then I might politely decline to have the door held for me. As I mentioned upthread – and maybe not of their own volition – the “have a blessed day” and “I’ll be praying for you” folks tend to be a subset of a superset that has clear political aims that are generally rejected by the majority of Americans and may, at least occasionally, fly in the face of Constitutional Law, or – at the very least – tend to subjugate minority and vulnerable populations. No bueno. That’s why I put these folks in a particular folder in my mental file cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/70 "2023-04-04T19:49:46Z")
I’m a nonbeliever, and I couldn’t care less if someone tells me they’ll be praying for me or my family, or whatever. I think it’s silly, but causes me now harm at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dogginit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogginit/32/16920_2.png) [@Dogginit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogginit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/71 "2023-04-04T20:03:00Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Is anyone offended when someone says they’ll pray for you? Should employees avoid such language when possible? If it makes them feel better, I’m good with it. Went to an actual barber shop about a year ago for the first time in ages. The lady barber noticed the growth on my left temple, asked if she could lay hands on it and pray for it to go away. No skin off my nose, made her feel better, didn’t work (at least until I see the dermatologist in a couple months). Taken in the same spirit as hearing “Merry Christmas”. Take it in the spirit in which it’s intended. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/72 "2023-04-04T20:18:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, that’s the thing. It is kind of important that people remember that atheists exist, and that they probably interact with multiple atheists a day. Visibility is an important part of protecting the rights of any minority, and atheists are a minority that aren’t terribly well like by a lot of people. And visibility is hard for atheists, because as a group we’re defined by something we don’t do. It’d be nice if there were some socially acceptable way of casually asserting atheism that wasn’t perceived as jerkish, but that’s just functionally hard to do, and not entirely because of religious hegemony - it’s not Christianity’s fault that my tongue-in-cheek “atheist condolence” is inappropriate, atheism just sucks as a way of offering emotional comfort to people. And I think that goes along with what I was saying earlier: > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is something like “I’ll pray for you” an expression of religiosity, or is it an expression of compassion and concern in a way that is natural for a religious person? To put it another way, when a person says something like “I’ll pray for you,” are they saying it for the sake of the other person? or are they saying it for their own sake, or the sake of promoting their religion, or something like that? If you’re looking to use someone else’s misfortune as an occasion to remind people that atheists exist, you’re choosing the wrong circumstance. I don’t think there’s a way of doing so that is for the benefit of that person, as opposed to your own benefit, or other atheists’, or Atheism in general. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/73 "2023-04-04T20:21:30Z")
I take your point. I was was replying to one post in the thread, and forgot the general purpose of the thread. I agree that the more extreme sort of religious “well wishing” can be a symptom of a larger desire to shove religion into public spaces where we don’t want it. And it is a well funded and organized movement, and many of our government officials belong to it. I support none of that, but I will say “bless you” even though I am personally an atheist. ETA: Not every Christian in America is of the right wing, authoritarian sort. I keep this in mind when thinking of the “I will pray for you” comments. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/74 "2023-04-04T20:26:38Z")
![](https://media.tenor.com/mTzJIXNtq1gAAAAC/dont-ask-me-keavu-reeves.gif "Dont Ask Me Keavu Reeves GIF - Dont Ask Me Keavu Reeves Square Space - Discover...") Pray for me But don’t mention me by name ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/75 "2023-04-04T20:28:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And I think that goes along with what I was saying earlier: No, that’s not it at all. My point is not that I want to use someone’s grief as an excuse to promote atheism, nor do I think that most theists are primarily motivated by that when they say they’ll pray for someone. But the _practical effect_ of this is that atheists continue to be invisible in the culture, and that invisibility is a serious issue when it comes to protecting minority rights. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/76 "2023-04-04T20:34:47Z")
> [@Dogginit](#): > > The lady barber noticed the growth on my left temple, asked if she could lay hands on it and pray for it to go away. No skin off my nose, made her feel better, didn’t work (at least until I see the dermatologist in a couple months). I’m not going to lie, that’s a bridge too far for me. A little outside my comfort zone. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/77 "2023-04-04T20:37:49Z")
> [@Dogginit](#): > > If it makes them feel better, I’m good with it. Went to an actual barber shop about a year ago for the first time in ages. The lady barber noticed the growth on my left temple, asked if she could lay hands on it and pray for it to go away. I once knew a woman who stuffed her monthly bills into her Bible and would say, “God’ll pay 'em.” That didn’t work out so well for her, either. ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/78 "2023-04-04T20:48:15Z")
Yes. The occasional “I’ll pray for you” and “bless you” don’t bother me a bit, but wanting me to participate in a ritual of any kind would be a big no. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/79 "2023-04-04T20:53:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But the _practical effect_ of this is that atheists continue to be invisible in the culture, and that invisibility is a serious issue when it comes to protecting minority rights. That’s fair. I can routinely assert my “not Christian” status by virtue of being Jewish. Judaism is more about practice than belief, so i really am a Reform Jew, despite not believing in God. I have a friend who became a humanist minister, and found it more comfortable to state a positive (he’s a humanist) than the implied negative (he doesn’t believe in any God or gods). But of course, most atheists aren’t going to give humanist sermons on the radio or perform humanist weddings and funerals. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/80 "2023-04-04T21:34:12Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > My uncle died a month ago. We were very close; he was like a father to me. I was feeling down at work, and someone said to me, “Sorry for your loss. I will pray for you.” > > I’m not religious. But I couldn’t imagine being bothered by what he said. Why should I feel offended for something he is going to do in private? It doesn’t tax or burden me in any way. There are people in this thread who have said it would bother them, though. Our standards shouldn’t be “am I personally bothered by this,” but instead “are there a significant number of people who would be bothered, and is it important to me to show them respect?” The reason it would bother me personally is because there’s probably a lot a person _could_ do for me if they really cared. “How can I help? Can I bring you dinner?” But instead they’re doing something that makes them feel good, not me. Assuming I thought their heart was in the right place, I wouldn’t be offended. But I’d be bothered that they were doing something meaningful to them, and apparently don’t care enough to think about what would be meaningful to me. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Some people genuinely believe that their prayers are helpful, and I think atheists sometimes forget this. Remembering that not everyone believes the same as you goes both ways. From a scientific perspective, _I_ think the prayers are useless. And the person is supposedly doing this for _me_, so why do their desires outweigh mine? If someone told me their father was sick and they were praying for him, it would be incredibly rude for me to tell them “don’t bother, prayers are useless,” because that would be imposing my beliefs on their grief. So why is it OK for them to impose their beliefs on mine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109.md?page=5)