# "I'll pray for you." Management Says "Not On My Watch!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109 "2023-04-03T23:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/141 "2023-04-05T20:25:07Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > “Bless you” is pretty neutral. Yeah, I think something can be a blessing without bringing God into it. People can bless each other, and/or can think that it’s a blessing to be able to be outside on a nice day, or something of that sort, even if none of them believe in God. – hmmm. When I look that up most definitions seem to disagree with me; but at least one gives my sort of meaning in two of their five definitions, and possibly in a third (though they proceed to mention God in their example for the third.) > **[Bless Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary](https://www.yourdictionary.com/bless)** > > Bless definition: To make holy by religious rite; sanctify. > To make happy or prosperous; gladden. > > He _blessed_ us with his leadership. > > Webster’s New World > > To favor or endow (_with_) > > To be _blessed_ with eloquence. > > Webster’s New World > > To praise or glorify. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > i think the group of people you can politely offer to pray for is pretty much the same as the group of people you can politely offer a hug to. Yes. And in both cases there are significant numbers of people who think that group is much larger than it is; and who are very likely to object if their intended attentions are rejected. I wouldn’t mind if a close friend asked me “can I pray for you”? I might even say yes. But from a casual acquaintance who I don’t feel comfortable discussing religious beliefs with, or from someone I know well enough to know that they tend to be religiously overbearing – that’s a different matter. And you’ll note that I’m positing the close friend would ask, not announce. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > As someone who doesn’t collect stamps, how would I indicate that I don’t collect stamps without saying something that could be said by someone who _does_ collect stamps? By saying “I don’t collect stamps.” Possibly, if applicable, in the form of “thanks, but I don’t collect stamps.” A statement that is unlikely to get you any significant pushback, and would not be considered rude. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/142 "2023-04-05T20:38:49Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > By saying “I don’t collect stamps.” Possibly, if applicable, in the form of “thanks, but I don’t collect stamps.” > > A statement that is unlikely to get you any significant pushback, and would not be considered rude. So, if someone says, “I’ll pray for you.” and you respond with “Thanks, but I don’t believe in a god.” you don’t think that would get any pushback or considered rude? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/143 "2023-04-05T20:39:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, if someone says, “I’ll pray for you.” and you respond with “Thanks, but I don’t believe in a god.” you don’t think that would get any pushback or considered rude? I do think it would be very likely to get pushback and be considered rude. That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/144 "2023-04-05T20:42:34Z")
I can only assume that you weren’t aware that I was using the well known and worn analogy of stamp collectors vs non-stamp collectors to theists vs non-theists? Otherwise, I really don’t get your point. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/145 "2023-04-05T20:43:56Z")
Huh? I clearly don’t get your point. No, I have heard no such analogy. Or is that a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/146 "2023-04-05T21:11:22Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > No, I have heard no such analogy. Ah, that makes more sense then. It is used around here fairly often, and it’s not like it’s unique to SDMB. The point is mostly that atheists have as much in common as people who don’t collect stamps. The point made here is that, in the analogy, most people tend to be stamp collectors, and make lots of references about collecting stamps, and expect you to be collecting stamps as well. So, my question within that analogy is how to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps. As you then pointed out, there is no way to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps, especially if they are currently offering me stamps in an attempt to console me for my loss or grief. Any mention that I don’t collect stamps in that situation would get pushback and considered rude. Just as any mention that I don’t believe in a god is would be. And you are right, that if I am the one suffering a loss, I am the one hurting, and if someone tries to make _themselves_ feel better by offering me literally the least they possibly can by offering prayer, if I were to tell them that it doesn’t comfort me because I don’t believe in a god, then I am the one that will get pushback and be considered to be rude. You want to pray for someone, by my guest. But if you want to let them know that you are praying for them, make sure it’s something that they will actually appreciated before doing so. Otherwise, you may be making someone who is coping with grief uncomfortable, and if you _meant_ your words to have comfort, then you should be aware that they may be doing the exact opposite, and they can’t even tell you so, without you thinking them to be rude. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/147 "2023-04-05T21:26:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The point made here is that, in the analogy, most people tend to be stamp collectors, and make lots of references about collecting stamps, and expect you to be collecting stamps as well. So, my question within that analogy is how to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps. > > As you then pointed out, there is no way to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps, especially if they are currently offering me stamps in an attempt to console me for my loss or grief. OK. But outside of that analogy, of course one can politely inform others that one doesn’t collect stamps: so that’s what I actually said. So referring to the analogy might have been a good idea. The whole point of the analogy in the first place is exactly that, in this world, one can politely say to the avid stamp collector that one doesn’t collect stamps. But thank you for the explanation, if not for the part in which you explain that I said something that I didn’t say. I understand that you didn’t mean it that way; but it’s sure going to look like that to any careless reader. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/148 "2023-04-05T21:37:01Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > OK. But outside of that analogy, of course one can politely inform others that one doesn’t collect stamps: so that’s what I actually said. So referring to the analogy might have been a good idea. When my husband died (an energetic atheist, he was), this situation came up a few times. My standard response was, “That’s not meaningful to me, but I appreciate your kind words. I understand they are well intended.” That worked pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/149 "2023-04-05T21:37:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > OK. But outside of that analogy, of course one can politely inform others that one doesn’t collect stamps: so that’s what I actually said. So referring to the analogy might have been a good idea. Apologies, I thought it was around enough that anyone discussing these sorts of topics would be aware. I certainly expected anyone that responded to my use of the analogy would be. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The whole point of the analogy in the first place is exactly that, in this world, one can politely say to the avid stamp collector that one doesn’t collect stamps. Right, and the point of the analog is also to point out that one cannot politely say to the theist that they don’t believe in a god. They _should_ be treated the same, but they are not. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > But thank you for the explanation, if not for the part in which you explain that I said something that I didn’t say. I understand that you didn’t mean it that way; but it’s sure going to look like that to any careless reader. Yeah, I’m still mixing in the analogy, specifically to show that you _should_ be able to say the same thing to the person who offers to show you their stamp collection to make you feel better about a loss as you can say to someone who offers to demonstrate their religion to make you feel better about a loss. But you can’t, not without being considered rude. Let’s put it this way, if the OP had talked about how HR was asking employees to stop offering to show off their stamp collections to those in grief, then most people would have wondered why anyone would even do something like that. Can you explain why stamp collecting is treated differently than religion? Of course, like religion, if we _share_ stamp collecting as a hobby, then maybe it _would_ make me feel better to check out your collection. But why would someone assume that it would if they didn’t already know? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/150 "2023-04-06T00:09:19Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > No, I have heard no such analogy. That one went over my head, too. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/151 "2023-04-06T04:46:06Z")
“I’ve made a donation to the republican party in your name”. Or to NAMBLA. Or the church of Satan… Yep, I recognize that people mostly don’t even think about it. That’s maybe the point: they need to. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/152 "2023-04-06T05:23:16Z")
They don’t need to. They have 95 percent of the social “pie”…and are completely dumbfounded as to why we we won’t meet them halfway on that meager 5 percent we are trying to hang on to. We have threads on the subject of people expecting atheists to be “good” and stay silent or even pretend to participate when people publicly practice their religion. It was in one of those threads that someone used the term “militant atheists” to describe those that won’t roll over and play dead. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/153 "2023-04-06T14:36:42Z")
NOT disagreeing with you, but isn’t the whole point of the PC “don’t offend folks” that the majority doesn’t get to define what’s acceptable? Otherwise someone should be fine making racist comments, no? (Yes, I’m probably being too logical here.) ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/154 "2023-04-06T14:50:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Would it be a hijack to say that the concept of corporate DEI initiatives kind of offends me? I know they mean well and all, but it just seems like this cottage industry of professionals who just seem to add overhead in both their salaries and the various diversity and inclusion-themed events and training they organize. > > I’d like to add up all the hours wasted worrying and discussing the implications of people feeling triggered because a coworker said “bless you” after they sneezed. Indeed the ability to _feel_ any and all perceived micro aggressions must be exhausting to the extreme. I am unchurched yet I have no problem in my conservative workplace of saying or writing in a card in complete sincerity the expression of we’ll be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers when I have no intention of whispering in the big guys ear about it later. It’s just easier and gets that sensitive chore off my plate. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/155 "2023-04-06T15:24:25Z")
> [@chela](#): > > Indeed the ability to _feel_ any and all perceived micro aggressions must be exhausting to the extreme. It’s even more exhausting to be told that one just shouldn’t feel them. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/156 "2023-04-06T15:46:16Z")
Injury to insult! did I say you shouldn’t express your feelings? Express away! I can still imagine how exhausting it is to burden oneself with feeling perceived slights from something basically harmless as an offer of thoughts and prayers or god bless you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/157 "2023-04-06T15:59:41Z")
Complete sincerity in giving “thoughts and prayers” even though you say you are an atheist? One of us is a little confused as to the definition of “sincerity”, I think. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/158 "2023-04-06T16:08:12Z")
> **[Ten Thousand](https://xkcd.com/1053/)** > > Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time. Though I will admit it’s not something that I’d think that _everyone_ knows, but it is something that I’d think that those generally participating in discussions about the rights of religion in a secular society would have come across. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/159 "2023-04-06T16:10:32Z")
I will pray to the god of straw for you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109/160 "2023-04-06T16:18:06Z")
Well, thanks for not making fun of me for not following your obscure and awkward analogy, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-pray-for-you-management-says-not-on-my-watch/982109.md?page=9)