# "I'll Ride With You" in Aftermath of Aussie Terror Attack: Touching or Misguided? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406 "2014-12-16T17:04:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/41 "2014-12-16T23:21:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you Muslim? No but I have dark hair and tan easily. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/42 "2014-12-16T23:26:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no such thing as “the Muslim community” anymore than there is a “Catholic community” or an “Italian community”. Would you say that the mafia is a problem of “the Italian community”? Does my Italian neighbor have some responsibility for mob hits in Chicago? > > I would say that the idea that there is “an Islamic community” is the root of Islamophobia in the first place. It’s an idea of collective guilt and should have no place in a modern, western democracy. Nor is there any African-American community, the race of our president is inconsequential, Al Sharpton is out of a job, and those who see skin color do so to assign collective guilt as an affront to our modern, western democracy. Or, reality. Groups exist. They often proclaim themselves proudly, like the sort who kill others in the name of a religion. Let’s pretend that part doesn’t exist to comfort ourselves in feel-good liberal platitudes? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/43 "2014-12-16T23:27:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most Muslims, especially in the US (and probably in Australia, though I have no firsthand experience) already do all this. They’re already productive and peaceful members of our society. So why insult them with this inane slogan? To make _ourselves_ feel better, with the unintended consequence of perpetrating our differences? Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/44 "2014-12-16T23:30:12Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Empathy is not a zero sum game. Expressing concern for muslims who feel ashamed or afraid doesn’t use up all the empathy. There’s still plenty to empathy left for the people who were terrorized or killed. In fact, most people report that the more exercise they give their empathy reserves, the more there is to go around. Well said mate. Australians are proud to be multi faith and multi cultural, we have seen a few fringe groups pop up recently and most Aussies don’t want a bar of them. This campaign is our way of saying we get it, we don’t want another Cronulla. We all work with Muslims, Catholics, Atheists, Baptists, Sikhs, Hindus, Dreamtimers, Buddhists etc etc and while I think there religious views are not my cup of tea I respect them as part of this wonderful soup that makes Australia a great country to live. I see no downside with this campaign. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/45 "2014-12-16T23:30:28Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > So why insult them with this inane slogan? So far, the response from Muslim Australians that I’ve read has been positive. From what I can tell, most of them (or all of them) don’t feel insulted. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/46 "2014-12-16T23:36:23Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Nor is there any African-American community, Correct. > [@](#): > > the race of our president is inconsequential, It has obvious historical consequences. > [@](#): > > Al Sharpton is out of a job, Fantastic! > [@](#): > > and those who see skin color do so to assign collective guilt as an affront to our modern, western democracy. Yep, they should be, too. > [@](#): > > Or, reality. Groups exist. Of course they do. > [@](#): > > They often proclaim themselves proudly, like the sort who kill others in the name of a religion. Eh. Even al Qaeda is nothing more than a bunch of people who see some value in latching onto that brand. If I’m Ali Hussein, lone terrorist, I’m just some schlub with a suicide vest. But if I say I’m part of al Qaeda, hoo-ee!! I’m da bomb! > [@](#): > > Let’s pretend that part doesn’t exist to comfort ourselves in feel-good liberal platitudes? There is no such thing as “the Muslim community”, unless you go to some place where there is a tiny minority and they all meet at the same mosque and have some sense of shared identity. Muslims are spread all over the US, have various different beliefs and come from many different cultures (a Muslim from Indonesia isn’t much like a Muslim from Iran). You are the one pretending there is such a thing. It’s an absurdly facile argument to make. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/47 "2014-12-17T00:24:51Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Meaning, you join our society: embrace our customs, share our culture, watch our movies, listen to our music, etc. Do these things and people won’t see you as threatening. What, exactly, are “our” customs, culture, movies, and music? Because, unless I miss my guess, you and I are both white European-descended Americans, and I’m pretty sure that there’s precious little common ground shared between us on those subjects. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/48 "2014-12-17T00:27:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What, exactly, are “our” customs, culture, movies, and music? Because, unless I miss my guess, you and I are both white European-descended Americans, and I’m pretty sure that there’s precious little common ground shared between us on those subjects. Country AND western. That’s the answer for all four. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/49 "2014-12-17T00:38:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What, exactly, are “our” customs, culture, movies, and music? Because, unless I miss my guess, you and I are both white European-descended Americans, and I’m pretty sure that there’s precious little common ground shared between us on those subjects. The truthfulness of your sentiment is a testament to American culture. Our families did not cling for dear life to their ancestral heritage and we are better for it. As mentioned by several, the vast majority of Muslim immigrants to Western nations assimilate exceptionally well and blend in with the rest of us. They don’t need twitter kumbayas. They need young, radicalized men to stop blowing innocent people up in the name of their religion. Encouraging assimilation is integral to achieving these ends. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/50 "2014-12-17T00:51:21Z")
That all a country’s citizens should feel safe and welcome in its transport systems and other public spaces would seem to be a component of assimilation. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/51 "2014-12-17T01:12:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no such thing as “the Muslim community”, unless you go to some place where there is a tiny minority and they all meet at the same mosque and have some sense of shared identity. Muslims are spread all over the US, have various different beliefs and come from many different cultures (a Muslim from Indonesia isn’t much like a Muslim from Iran). You are the one pretending there is such a thing. It’s an absurdly facile argument to make. I experience this every day in possibly the most diverse city in the world. People have long since given up on some liberal ideal of integration and/or bogus we-are-the-world multi-culturalism. Yes, the “Muslim community” is indeed centred on mosques, hundreds of them - you choose which one is best for you. The local mosques will band together on some occasions. There ae regional and national councils. All these represent different levels of community, or collectivism. Most new immigrants rely on churches and mosques for community: African Christians start their churches in any old empty building and build their communities, Poles adopt run down Irish Catholic churches and revive them with hundreds of new immigrants. And so it goes no, and on. Religion is at the centre of virtually all immigrant communities. And, fwiw, they do this instead of ‘assimilating’ with the people of the country they have come to. They do want to live in peace but they generally don’t give a flying fuck for you or your country, your history, culture or values - they don’t watch yoru tv, listen to your music, go to your restaurants. They’re here for the betterment of themselves and the next generation, just like immigrants through history. And they sure as hell have their own communities at local, regional and national level. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/52 "2014-12-17T01:16:44Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The truthfulness of your sentiment is a testament to American culture. Our families did not cling for dear life to their ancestral heritage and we are better for it. Really? My mom attends Catholic mass twice a week. That wasn’t a custom my family picked up in the New World. > [@](#): > > As mentioned by several, the vast majority of Muslim immigrants to Western nations assimilate exceptionally well and blend in with the rest of us. Someone should tell that to the guy who wrote post #35. He doesn’t seem to have gotten the memo. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/53 "2014-12-17T02:08:53Z")
The anti-muslim backlash looks like this: [http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/man-kicked-off-melbourne-train-after-reportedly-abusing-woman-in-chador-20141216-128kub.html](http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/man-kicked-off-melbourne-train-after-reportedly-abusing-woman-in-chador-20141216-128kub.html) It’s being stamped on hard, but it’s there. And the reason it’s pretty minimal is _because_ it’s being stamped on hard ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/54 "2014-12-17T05:54:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What, exactly, are “our” customs, culture, movies, and music? Because, unless I miss my guess, you and I are both white European-descended Americans, and I’m pretty sure that there’s precious little common ground shared between us on those subjects. Yep as a white male of Finnish Lutheran background I don’t share much with a Spanish Catholic. Every new generation of immigrants stays in their own little group but the kids then start to integrate, we have witnessed this in Australia when germans, italians, poles etc came out for the Snowy River project, we saw it with the influx of Vietnamese in the '70s, we saw it with the indians in the '90s, now it’s middle eastern and somalias etc etc etc. Each group brings it’s own customs and food and we are a richer country for it. This idea of saying you must accept Australian way of life is dumb, we are one but we are many. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/55 "2014-12-17T09:36:32Z")
My opinion it is a bit of both - touching and misguided. Touching in that it reaffirms the attitude of the majority, misguided in thinking it will change the minority of people who only care to see problems about another people, and never any of the other good, bad and boring stuff. The thing that will change things here is time. Even assholes are not racist anymore as a rule of thumb, a trend set to grow. The vast majority of us see, live and feel everyday what a much better country we are with variety than without. From art to football to food to education… So much better than my parents parents day when everybody was white, burned their steaks by default and dressed identically to every other person of the same gender and ran people out of town that were contrary. Yech, no way. So ride with me may be a bit cheesy, but I’d much rather exist in a day where things like this can happen that one where it wouldn’t. So I will ride with you too. With anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/56 "2014-12-17T10:11:29Z")
I’m thrilled by it. Too often my news feed has been dominated by the messages of hate after an incident like this. This time the good hearted people I know have had something they can put out there to show solidarity, and it’s heartening to see how many there are. It’s a nice antidote to that one old school chum who has been posting pictures of Pauline Hanson captioned “Fucking warned ya, didn’t I” and something about “how’s that multiculturalism working out for ya”, or words to that effect. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/57 "2014-12-17T13:32:30Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > More appropriate would be a “You’ll Ride With Me” campaign. > > Meaning, you join our society: embrace our customs, share our culture, watch our movies, listen to our music, etc. Do these things and people won’t see you as threatening. This is boilerplate anti-immigrant xenophobia. It is exactly the same erroneous claims leveled against German immgrants through the 1840s, Irish immigrants from the 1840s through the early twentieth century, Italian and Eastern European immigrants from the 1890s through the 1920s, East Asian immigrants from the 1860s through the 1940s, and people from Hispanic Americas for the last few decades. Every generation claims that the new immigrants are refusing to assimilate and every serious measure of behavior indicates that, as a group, immigrants in the U.S. have always made serious efforts to integrate and assimilate. The current Muslim immigrants from various parts of the world are following very much in both traditions: assimilating while being reviled by false claims that they are refusing to do so. Certainly some family and religious traditions tend to linger for generations, but actual participation in society begins immediately. And, certainly, there are always a small number of immigrants who, being met with hostility over their place of origin, push back with an overt refusal to assimilate. It is the calls of those tiny numbers of resisting individuals to whom the xenophobes like to point when they launch their false diatribes against immigrants for failing to “become like us.” Promoting that nonsense supports ignorance rather than fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/58 "2014-12-17T13:40:48Z")
Just based on the title, I was going with “potentially misguided”, but for on reading the thread, definitely not for the same reasons. It immediately struck me as kind of patronizing, even if well meaning. But then, I’d flounder and die in a marketing department. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/59 "2014-12-17T13:44:04Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > And, fwiw, they do this instead of ‘assimilating’ with the people of the country they have come to. They do want to live in peace but they generally don’t give a flying fuck for you or your country, your history, culture or values - they don’t watch yoru tv, listen to your music, go to your restaurants. They’re here for the betterment of themselves and the next generation, just like immigrants through history. > > And they sure as hell have their own communities at local, regional and national level. Nope. They do not maintain their place of origin cultural connections instead of assimilating. They maintain their cultural ties for emotional support in addition to assimilating, with those cultural support systems becoming less central to their lives as they become more familiar with, (and are increasingly permitted to join), the larger society. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406/60 "2014-12-17T15:48:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Nope. They do not maintain their place of origin cultural connections instead of assimilating. They maintain their cultural ties for emotional support in addition to assimilating, with those cultural support systems becoming less central to their lives as they become more familiar with, (and are increasingly permitted to join), the larger society. I’m here, living and working amongst it. That liberal dream died 15 years ago - no one bought that bogus coffee-coloured utopia. Economic migrants laugh at it. There is no assimilation for the first generation, there is variable assimilation for subsequent generations - in fact, many first generation have no intention of their even being a second generation (the wife will return home with the chilrden where they will live middle class lives based on the husbands first world income). It’s not hard to fathom; who the fuck would aspire to western values and western culture. … I have no idea where you live but this is the this real world we live in here… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-ride-with-you-in-aftermath-of-aussie-terror-attack-touching-or-misguided/707406.md?page=4)