# I'll throw you in jail when I become President **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 10, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168 "2016-10-10T18:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/121 "2016-10-13T02:56:08Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > You admit you don’t know the law, so why do you keep throwing the law around as The Reason for Hillary=bad, Trump=good? Huh? Is it a requirement to understand the law as well as a lawyer could before coming to an opinion on whether a law was broken? Because plenty of people more knowledgeable than I am have weighed in and agreed that she should have been charged. All I was trying to say, and the opinion I agree with more. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/122 "2016-10-13T02:57:23Z")
**HeweyLogan** , what do you think should happen to Karl Rove for deleting all of the Bush administration emails? ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/123 "2016-10-13T03:01:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > **HeweyLogan** , what do you think should happen to Karl Rove for deleting all of the Bush administration emails? He should be charged and prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/124 "2016-10-13T03:22:04Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > That he believes Hillary should be in jail or otherwise held accountable for her actions? She _is_ being held accountable for her actions. The investigators investigated her actions and found that **they didn’t reach criminal levels of misconduct**. Sorry to ruin your daydream, but you can’t actually indict somebody for wrongdoing that doesn’t actually constitute an indictable offense. > [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Huh? Is it a requirement to understand the law as well as a lawyer could before coming to an opinion on whether a law was broken? When your opinion disagrees with the findings of the _actual_ lawyers _who actually investigated the question of whether a law was broken and found that it was not_, then yes. In that case, you **do** need to have lawyer-level comprehension of the subject to make your dissent amount to anything more than a childishly petulant rejection of facts you don’t happen to like because your wishful thinking tells you they ought to be different. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/125 "2016-10-13T05:26:56Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Because plenty of people more knowledgeable than I am have weighed in and agreed that she should have been charged. I’m not seeing it. I’ve heard any number of people (on these boards and elsewhere) say they have government experience and that this level of security breach gets nothing but a slap on the wrist. I’ve read that the result of the FBI investigation was a conclusion that there wasn’t sufficient to lay charges. So who are the knowledgeable people who say she should have been charged? Don’t tell me let me guess: “Top men.” “Who?!” “Top…men” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/126 "2016-10-13T09:02:22Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > What you don’t get and what amazes me is you and the broader Democrats take anything he says completely literally - no other reading or incorporation of ideas allowed. What he’s said is written in stone. But that’s his thing. His supporters tell us time and time again that the appeal of Trump is that he “tells it like it is”, that he’s a straight-shooter who says exactly what he’s thinking. He’s not like those other politicians (we are assured) who don’t mean what they say; with Trump what he says is exactly what he means, with no spin. Unless he and his supporters were all lying about that, of course. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/127 "2016-10-13T10:10:25Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > What’s sad is how you can’t or willfully won’t understand what another person is trying to say without it being broken down into incy teeny tiny pieces and spoon-fed to your sphincter’d head. This is a Warning that you are not to attempt to make your point by launching personal insults at your opponent. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/128 "2016-10-13T10:12:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Picture him waving his arm spastically and saying “I don’t know what I said. I don’t remember”. This is a Warning that you are not to attempt to make your point by launching personal insults at your opponent. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/129 "2016-10-13T10:13:10Z")
**Everyone** , calm down and back away from the snide comments. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/130 "2016-10-13T10:14:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is a Warning that you are not to attempt to make your point by launching personal insults at your opponent. > > [/Moderating] That was a reference to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/131 "2016-10-13T10:30:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That was a reference to Trump. That’s how I read it, considering that Trump had done exactly that and used exactly those words to mock a disabled reporter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/132 "2016-10-13T13:32:35Z")
Well, the important thing to remember is that both sides do it. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/133 "2016-10-13T13:47:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That was a reference to Trump. I read it that way too. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/134 "2016-10-13T13:55:14Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > To clarify the list and better explain it than I can or could, and because it didn’t touch on what I found to be the bigger illegalities of what she did, I’ll add a better list. > > 1. The Federal Records Act requires agencies hold onto official communications, including all work-related emails, and government employees cannot destroy or remove relevant records. > > 2. The NARA regulations dictate how records should be created and maintained. They stress that materials must be maintained “by the agency,” that they should be “readily found” and that the records must “make possible a proper scrutiny by the Congress.” My office, deep in the Federal bureaucracy, now periodically reviews its compliance with these laws and regulations, thanks. So I’m familiar with them. (We didn’t used to, so I’m also familiar with what happens when you find you’re not in compliance.) You know what happens when you’re out of compliance with these laws? They lean on you to get back in compliance, to the best of your ability given what’s already happened, and keep after you until you can say you’re either compliant, or as close to compliant as past lapses in document handling will allow for. In our office, for instance, we’d gotten rid of a lot of old documents when moving between buildings because the new building didn’t have nearly as much document storage space. Theoretically we scanned everything into PDF form, but due to time constraints, on multiple occasions we scanned thousands of individual paper documents onto a single PDF document. Maybe it’s all still there or maybe not, but none of it can really be located in any meaningful way. But at the time, we were unfamiliar with the laws and regs pertaining to record-keeping, and the first priority was keeping on top of our work while preparing for the move. Nobody got tossed in prison, nobody got fined, nobody lost their jobs, nobody even got reprimanded over this. > [@](#): > > 1. Section 1924 of Title 18 has to do with deletion and retention of classified documents. “Knowingly” removing or housing classified information at an “unauthorized location” is subject to a fine or a year in prison. > > [Fact Check: Hillary Clinton, Those Emails And The Law : It's All Politics : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/02/396823014/fact-check-hillary-clinton-those-emails-and-the-law) As I admitted, I’m hardly an expert on classified documents, but **iiandyiiii** [has spoken to that subject already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19695067&postcount=103), so we have the benefit of his experience. > [@](#): > > I think she used her power, prestige, and connections to influence an outcome that anyone else not in her position would have faced - jail. “I think.” But those of us with experience with such things say you have no idea what you’re talking about - that if some grunt had made the same sorts of mistakes, that grunt would likely not even lose his/her job, let alone face prison. > [@](#): > > Trump’s saying that wouldn’t take place under his watch, ie it wouldn’t have been biased in her favor. Not that on day one of his Presidency she’d be in jail, as I think some here are implying. Trump said she’d be in jail. You can pretend he said something else if you want, but don’t expect the rest of us to play along. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/135 "2016-10-13T15:00:59Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > 1. Section 1924 of Title 18 has to do with deletion and retention of classified documents. “Knowingly” removing or housing classified information at an “unauthorized location” is subject to a fine or a year in prison. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > As I admitted, I’m hardly an expert on classified documents, but **iiandyiiii** [has spoken to that subject already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19695067&postcount=103), so we have the benefit of his experience. Also, the FBI concluded that Hilary didn’t “knowingly” remove or house classified information. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/136 "2016-10-13T15:05:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > My office, deep in the Federal bureaucracy, now periodically reviews its compliance with these laws and regulations, thanks… But at the time, we were unfamiliar with the laws and regs pertaining to record-keeping, and the first priority was keeping on top of our work while preparing for the move. My point would be, and I think others would agree, is that she’s been in politics almost her entire life. How could she not know the rules? I get that you and your office have made mistakes that might/could have been gone after, or at least been a pain to explain or make up for, but those to me sound like honest mistakes. I don’t have a problem with leniency or a pass when it comes to what you describe. Again what I have a problem with is she should have known better given her experience and time served in office. How could she be so dumb? And if she’s dumb and misinformed why vote for her for president? > [@RTFirefly](#): > > As I admitted, I’m hardly an expert on classified documents, but **iiandyiiii** [has spoken to that subject already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19695067&postcount=103), so we have the benefit of his experience. Following your link iiandyiiii states “carelessness and boneheaded mistakes are never prosecuted.” I find that hard to believe, but ok, I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. When I’m told I should vote for Hillary because of her temperament, experience, and knowledge of the system of government, I have a hard time turning around and ignoring her “careless and boneheaded mistakes”. They completely contradict each other. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > “I think.” But those of us with experience with such things say you have no idea what you’re talking about - that if some grunt had made the same sorts of mistakes, that grunt would likely not even lose his/her job, let alone face prison. Bryan H. Nishimura > [@](#): > > In that case the reservist from northern California got criminally charged—as per FBI recommendation—for having classified material on personal electronic devices that weren’t authorized by the government to contain such information. The FBI investigation didn’t reveal evidence that the reservist intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel, so he was just being “extremely careless” like Clinton and her top aides. [Comey’s FBI Helped Convict Navy Reservist who “Handled Classified Materials Inappropriately” | Judicial Watch](http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/07/comeys-fbi-helped-convict-navy-reservist-handled-classified-materials-inappropriately/) > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Trump said she’d be in jail. You can pretend he said something else if you want, but don’t expect the rest of us to play along. She’d be in jail if he were in charge of the justice department at the time. And I assume after a proper trial. Not that she’d be tossed in jail regardless of anything but him being in office. He’s saying he’d hold her to the standards other have been held to. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/137 "2016-10-13T15:11:01Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Not that she’d be tossed in jail regardless of anything but him being in office. He’s saying he’d hold her to the standards other have been held to. I agree. N0-_You_ are saying that. We have on record what _he_ said, and if you wish we could quote it for you for the umpteenth time…if that would do any good, that is. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/138 "2016-10-13T15:18:35Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > My point would be, and I think others would agree, is that she’s been in politics almost her entire life. How could she not know the rules? Because there are a lot of damned rules, and oddly enough, the Secretary of State has other things on her mind. It’s not exactly a make-work job. > [@](#): > > Following your link iiandyiiii states “carelessness and boneheaded mistakes are never prosecuted.” > > I find that hard to believe, but ok, I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. > > When I’m told I should vote for Hillary because of her temperament, experience, and knowledge of the system of government, I have a hard time turning around and ignoring her “careless and boneheaded mistakes”. They completely contradict each other. As Secretary of State, I expected her to do the best job possible of managing the role of the U.S. in the world. I suppose we could put her recordkeeping at the top of the list of things to judge a Cabinet official by, but it would be as stupid as judging my work product by whether or not I kept a clean desk. > [@](#): > > Bryan H. Nishimura > > [Comey’s FBI Helped Convict Navy Reservist who “Handled Classified Materials Inappropriately” | Judicial Watch](http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/07/comeys-fbi-helped-convict-navy-reservist-handled-classified-materials-inappropriately/) In case you’re wondering, no, I’m not going to take a wingnut website’s description of a case, written when it had the Hillary axe to grind, as gospel. If you can find a similar description of his case from a more neutral website, I’ll read it. > [@](#): > > She’d be in jail if he were in charge of the justice department at the time. And I assume after a proper trial. > > Not that she’d be tossed in jail regardless of anything but him being in office. He’s saying he’d hold her to the standards other have been held to. I agree. No, he’s saying she’d be in jail. I agree that he’s saying he’d have her prosecuted first, but he’s clear about the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/139 "2016-10-13T15:32:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > …no, I’m not going to take a wingnut website’s description of a case, written when it had the Hillary axe to grind, as gospel. > > If you can find a similar description of his case from a more neutral website, I’ll read it. [https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/sacramento/news/press-releases/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials](https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/sacramento/news/press-releases/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168/140 "2016-10-13T15:35:16Z")
I think Hillary’s carelessness is a mark against her. But a thousand such marks against her wouldn’t get her close to as bad as Trump is, by my measure, so with regards to my vote in this election, it’s meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ill-throw-you-in-jail-when-i-become-president/768168.md?page=8)