# Illegal alien busted at work **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650 "2006-03-09T05:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/21 "2006-03-10T22:01:36Z")
They also won’t get any of the SSI benefits they’ve been paying into, either. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/22 "2006-03-10T22:24:08Z")
I wonder where all of the people so up in arms about Illegals using public services will be equally adament in returning the tax money of immigrants that paid and then got deported. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/23 "2006-03-10T22:59:37Z")
Or of immigrants that paid state and federal taxes and never used those services. Most people forget that even the undocumented pay sales tax. They pay property tax in the form of rent, too. And as far as using a lot of public services, well isn’t that one very good reason why we do not want to create a permanent underclass by driving the undocumented even further underground? Ah, never mind, I guess. Hijacking this thread into a debate about immigration is not very nice. Plus, folks feel strongly on both sides and can’t be converted. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/24 "2006-03-11T00:42:13Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I’d like to know how he was able to buy a house and car without having any financial records. > > If he did get a no-verification mortgage - which requires no paperwork and in exchange you pay a much higher interest rate - and he really wasn’t filing his tax returns showing self-employed payments of federal taxes/FICA/Medicare, then he never got the benefit of deducting his mortgage interest. > > Too much information missing here. And way too many assumptions. One does not have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy a car or a house in this country. > [@](#): > > [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_29/b3943001_mz001.htm) > > At the local Mexican consulate, the Valenzuelas each signed up for an identification card known as a matrícula consular, for which more than half the applicants are undocumented immigrants, according to the Pew Hispanic center, a Washington think tank. Scores of financial institutions now accept it for bank accounts, credit cards, and car loans. Next, they applied to the Internal Revenue Service for individual tax identification numbers (ITINS), allowing them to pay taxes like any U.S. citizen – and thereby to eventually get a home mortgage. > > Today, companies large and small eagerly cater to the Valenzuelas – regardless of their status. In 2003 they paid $11,000 for a used Ford Motor Co. van plus $70,000 more for a gleaming new 30-foot trailer that now serves as headquarters and kitchen for their restaurant. A local car dealer gave them a loan for the van based only on Antonio’s matrícula card and his Mexican driver’s license. Verizon Communications Inc. also accepted his matrícula when he signed up for cell-phone service. So did a Wells Fargo & Co. (WFC ) branch in the predominantly Hispanic neighborhood in northeast Los Angeles where they live. > > … > > So with a wary eye on the heated political debate, business is targeting the Valenzuelas and millions of others who have entered the country illegally. Many companies do so more or less openly. Wells Fargo has half a million matrícula accounts, a majority of them, they acknowledge, opened by unauthorized aliens who lack regular residency or citizenship papers. At the Valenzuelas’ branch, fully 80% of accounts are opened by matrícula holders. > [@](#): > > [CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8 | cbs8.com](http://www.kfmb.com/story.php?id=35306) > > Wells Fargo Bank has raised some eyebrows for a new program that gives home loans to illegal immigrants. > > The bank’s Celebrate Home program is aimed at what it says is an untapped market in real estate. > > Wells Fargo said the program meets all federal guidelines. > [@](#): > > [http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=3649553](http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=3649553) > > David got a 30-year, $135,000 loan. He pays $950 a month for his house in the South Valley. > > The Valley non-profit group Acorn is helping people like David. They set him up with Citibank in Fresno, where a social security number is not required. > > Instead, it asks for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or I-TIN. It proves they pay taxes to the IRS. Applicants also have to have a bank account, proof of US residency for two years, and two years of credit references. > > . . . > > Despite the accusations that what they’re doing is illegal, Citigroup and Acorn stand by the program. > > Acorn issued a statement saying everything about their program is legal. They say in the United States, it is perfectly legal for non-citizens to own property. > > When asked about its opinion on whether the program is indeed legal, or unlawfully entices illegal immigrants to stay, the U.S. Attorney’s office refused an answer. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/25 "2006-03-11T03:02:39Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > One does not have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy a car or a house in this country. I wasn’t questioning that; I was asking how he could have bought a house with no tax returns and no proof of income, since he was assumed to have never filed tax returns and never paid quarterly self-employed taxes. ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/26 "2006-03-14T17:02:18Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Just out of interest, i’m curious about the moral distinction you seem to be drawing here. > > Do you see some important moral or political difference between a guy who works illegally picking tomatoes and a guy who develops databases? No, not really… Mainly I was posting out of frustration about several things right after it happened. (Don’t post angry!) Including… 1. The guy was always harping on illegals. I usually defended them. I didn’t think they should get free run of the country, but I think the US should welcome hard workers. This was probably just a cover story to throw off suspicion, but it was still a prolonged lie. 2. He worked on some vital stuff. Now all of the sudden everybody else was scrambling to figure out where he was in his projects (not a whole lot of documentation) for a lot of time sensitive projects. We were already in a crunch time and now we’re a man down, plus we’re having to backtrack to figure out what’s been done putting us even further behind. Admittedly, if he been hit by a truck and was in a hospital we’d be in the same boat, except… 3. He knew he was illegal and put himself to be put in a trusted, vital position where he was a knowledge holder under false pretenses. He knew what would happen if he was found out. It’s not like he was picking oranges could be replaced by the next guy down. We’re missing deadlines and causing our clients problems because his work is not getting done, all because he was working illegally. And wer’re going to be scrambling until we can get somebody ramped up to fill his shoes. 4. I thought the company would be on the hook for having him on for so long – thanks to the dopers who chimed in on that subject! 🙂 So what moral line AM I drawing? None. When it boils down to it I’m pissed off that it’s made my life harder… I’m still sympathetic with anybody who wants to work hard for a living to make their lives better… But what happened to us wasn’t victimless, our ex-coworker knew exactly what would happen as a result and he did it anyway. And I seriously doubt he’s going to go back to Mexico thinking “man I’m sorry I put those guys on the hook, I won’t do THAT again!” EZ ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650/27 "2006-03-14T17:11:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > EZ, was this guy working for a contracting firm or for you as a self-employed contractor? Sorry Voyager, I don’t know too many of the details – our HR people are very tight lipped when we even bring up the subject (“Legal reasons,” they say.) All I know is that he was a contractor since he came here. I would suspect that he was self-employed by this time because all of us start as contractors from a firm then if the company likes us they hire us on after 90 days. The guy in question came in that way as well, but after his 90 day thing he decided to remain a contractor so I guess at that point he became self-employed. How he got by after that I have no idea. But heck the guy had a house – he must have had some kind of ability to fake his way through the system… EZ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-alien-busted-at-work/347650.md?page=1)