# Illegal Immigrants, taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450 "2010-11-21T17:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/21 "2010-11-22T18:51:51Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > The IRS doesn’t give a rip about immigration status. They’re tasked by Congress to collect tax revenue and administer the tax code - not to enforce immigration. The IRS [won’t even release tax return data that might lead to kidnapped children,](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/business/13missing.html?_r=1) let alone data that might reveal a visa overstay. They consider their mission to be taxes, period, and that information-sharing is detrimental to that mission. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/22 "2010-11-22T19:02:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In short, nobody cares too much if your SSN is valid or your own as long as you’re paying money into the system. You only need a valid SSN if you intend to take money back out of the system. > > Now, there are doubtless some employers who don’t do the withholding from employee paychecks like they’re supposed to, and their employees may end up not paying taxes as a result. But that would apply to their legal and illegal employees alike, and if Uncle Sam gets word of it, the employer will be in a heap of trouble. So most just pay it and don’t take the risk. Right. Employers rarely hire Illegals “under the table”, the Employers needs to have “plausible deniability”, by showing that they got **A** SSN and \*some sort \*of ID from the employee and paid them just like any other employee. Otherwise, it’s a open & shut case. I mean if the INS (or whateverthefuck they call themselves today) raids, and they find 12 employees, 8 of which are illegal- and those 8 all are paid less and under the table- it’s pretty obvious the employer had full knowledge of their immigration status. And, then the IRS gets into the act, and there’s scads of serious penalties for Employment tax. The IRS doesn’t really care about Immigration status- but they DO care thankyouverymuch about Taxes. Of course, most of their jobs aren’t very high pay, so yes, they pay less taxes, but would we deny Gramma (who only gets SocSec ) various benefits, just because she doesn’t pay much in the way of taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/23 "2010-11-22T20:53:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To what extent do the immigrants know that, though? I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them saw the government as a single monolithic entity, and assumed that anything the IRS knew about them, the immigration officials knew also. The vast majority of immigrants are Mexican, so they shouldn’t have any false assumptions of a single, monolithic entity government. They have much the same system we do: several, increasingly-less autonomous states under a federal system; three branches of government; a tax-collecting organization akin to the IRS (“_Hacienda_”), and the same issues where one government agency has no idea how to talk to another government agency. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/24 "2010-11-22T21:02:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To what extent do the immigrants know that, though? I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them saw the government as a single monolithic entity, and assumed that anything the IRS knew about them, the immigration officials knew also. My Bro used to work for the IRS, and he sez the Immigrant Community more or less trusted the IRS. He told funny stories of agents coming in, flashing their badges and saying “IRS”, then having to say (to a bunch of swiftly departing assholes and elbows) “No, not I **N** S. IArrrrS. **R**!” 😃 They then started saying _“Impuestos Federales”._ Of course, the IRS isn’t exactly anyones favorite agency either, but the migrants didn’t bolt out the back doors and windows if they knew that the I **R** S had come knocking. They mostly played “_No Habla_” for the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/25 "2010-11-22T21:08:05Z")
Not so relevant, but I always find it a little bizarre. In the UK someone who misrepresenting that they have the right to work in the UK to a company in order to obtain employment is guilty of the crime of obtaining money by deception. Their wages are technically defrauded from the company. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/26 "2010-11-22T23:35:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To what extent do the immigrants know that, though? I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them saw the government as a single monolithic entity, and assumed that anything the IRS knew about them, the immigration officials knew also. Most of them know it. An office of one of the major tax chains in the Seattle area did about 5% of their business for illegal immigrants, including two Canadians. Some of these people are filing because they over withheld on their paychecks and want a refund. I’m not sure of the official position or the current word on the street, but a few years ago, the conventional wisdom was that filing and paying taxes was a necessary step toward becoming a legal immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/27 "2010-11-23T01:10:38Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I’m not sure of the official position or the current word on the street, but a few years ago, the conventional wisdom was that filing and paying taxes was a necessary step toward becoming a legal immigrant. It’s one of many factors considered for many kinds of discretionary immigration applications, should the taxpayer become eligible in the future to apply for legal status (such as by marrying a U.S. citizen, or by remaining under the radar long enough to be eligible to apply for [cancellation of removal)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_of_removal)). Paying taxes is considered a sign of good moral character. And for that matter, it’s a factor in immigration matters involving lawful permanent residents; woe be to the naturallization applicant, for example, who is revealed to be a tax scofflaw, or worse, a tax cheat. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/28 "2010-11-23T06:05:27Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > The IRS [won’t even release tax return data that might lead to kidnapped children,](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/business/13missing.html?_r=1) let alone data that might reveal a visa overstay. They consider their mission to be taxes, period, and that information-sharing is detrimental to that mission. It’s not just that “they consider their mission” – there are specific laws _requiring_ the IRS to keep information on tax forms confidential, even from other government law enforcement officials. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/29 "2010-11-23T07:47:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To what extent do the immigrants know that, though? I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them saw the government as a single monolithic entity, and assumed that anything the IRS knew about them, the immigration officials knew also. I can’t speak for other immigrants, but I can tell you that in my case and the case of the immigrants I’ve known personally, we were worried about getting thrown to La Migra if some cop stopped us for having a broken light and smelled pot in the car, or if some customs agent was having a toothache, or if a campus cop was feeling more dickish than usual, but not about either the IRS or SS. They’re the government but they’re not law enforcement and they tend to follow the Don’t Be A Dick rule. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450/30 "2010-11-23T13:08:50Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > It’s not just that “they consider their mission” – there are specific laws _requiring_ the IRS to keep information on tax forms confidential, even from other government law enforcement officials. Is there a staff report or an article from The Master, though, that indicates the IRS will cooperate with police if you list your illegal occupation and income? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigrants-taxes/561450.md?page=1)