# Illegal Immigration: Amnesty or Boot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075 "2015-08-17T14:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/41 "2015-08-19T23:52:47Z")
> [@Gent](#): > > It’s their responsibility to acquire skills desirable for this country. Anyone can do that. If one really wanted to become a U.S. Citizen, they can. God forbid we required some initiative. Sure, an indigenous Guatemalan highlander who has 2 years of formal education and doesn’t even speak Spanish as a first language is realistically going to get an advanced degree in a technical field, which is generally the most straightforward route to an employment-based green card. Even if you have a U.S. master’s degree or higher, your shot at getting an H-1B visa this year was about 1 in 2. Green cards? [If you can decipher this chart,](http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/law-and-policy/bulletin/2015/visa-bulletin-for-august-2015.html) it essentially means that even if you pass all the hurdles and get an employer to offer you a permanent job in the U.S., you are likely to be waiting years before you qualify for a green card. Those dates mean that applicants have already survived labor certification (the test of the U.S. labor market to show that there are no qualified U.S. workers available to do the advertised job at the prevailing wage for the position, level, and geographic location, as determined by the Department of Labor). There are vanishingly few employers who are willing to spend years and thousands of dollars on the labor certification process, which is just stage 1 of the employment-based green card process, unless the applicant is already working for them and they have an idea whether the person is worth it. Less than half of the people who apply even get a shot at an H-1B, the primary category of professional work visa, because in recent years 2 - 3 times the annual quota of petitions has been received **in the first 5 business days** that petitions are accepted for the next fiscal year. And of those who do, if they were unlucky enough to be born in China, India, or the Philippines, and their positions require a bachelor’s degree, the people whose approved labor certifications were filed on June 1, 2004 or earlier are just now eligible to apply for the final stage of permanent residence. That means they have likely been in the permanent residence process for 12 years or longer, not counting any time they might have spent on work visas (or student, or any other kind of visa) before that. It’s not a realistic expectation, period. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/42 "2015-08-20T03:51:31Z")
> [@Gent](#): > > It’s their responsibility to acquire skills desirable for this country. Anyone can do that. If one really wanted to become a U.S. Citizen, they can. God forbid we required some initiative. And if they are hungry, let them eat cake! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/43 "2015-08-20T03:56:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It was written in 1883, when the US effectively had no border controls for anyone except the Chinese. And nothing has really changed. We still have no border controls except for our oceans, which is very convenient for Latin Americans and has a very discriminatory impact on everyone who can’t take advantage of a land route to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/44 "2015-08-20T03:57:25Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > It’s not a realistic expectation, period. I understand that the requirements to immigrate to Canada are just as stringent, if not more so. Is that not the case? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/45 "2015-08-20T04:44:30Z")
The boot. Through a revolving door at the border. They can come back in and be documented if they’re not wanted for any crimes. Add increased legal immigration to that. And a wall. A wall composed of the military, drones, fences, and directions to the legal entry point. I don’t know where we’ll put all the people that come in, not a lot of localities are begging for immigrants right now. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/46 "2015-08-20T18:34:48Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I understand that the requirements to immigrate to Canada are just as stringent, if not more so. > > Is that not the case? I wouldn’t know - I have no particular expertise in the Canadian immigration system. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/47 "2015-08-20T21:17:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It was written in 1883, when the US effectively had no border controls for anyone except the Chinese. Even better, Ellis Island did not open until 1892. My grandparents and great-grandparents came a bit before it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/48 "2015-08-20T21:22:14Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I support **annexation** , just take Mexico and make them all citizens. Huddled masses yearning to be free will pay taxes. We could snap up Canada as well, not like the Queen’s going to spank us or anything. It’s easy to add stars to our flag, but Quebec will say their stripe is the wrong color, just watch and see. > > Seriously, if we just make Mexicans US citizens, no more illegal immigrant problem !!! Uh oh, here come the Salvadorans! As far as Canada, based on an op-ed in the Times by an illegal Canadian immigrant, nobody notices. He was here illegally for years and never got hassled. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/49 "2015-08-20T21:29:58Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Sure, an indigenous Guatemalan highlander who has 2 years of formal education and doesn’t even speak Spanish as a first language is realistically going to get an advanced degree in a technical field, which is generally the most straightforward route to an employment-based green card. Even if you have a U.S. master’s degree or higher, your shot at getting an H-1B visa this year was about 1 in 2. > > Green cards? [If you can decipher this chart,](http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/law-and-policy/bulletin/2015/visa-bulletin-for-august-2015.html) it essentially means that even if you pass all the hurdles and get an employer to offer you a permanent job in the U.S., you are likely to be waiting years before you qualify for a green card. Those dates mean that applicants have already survived labor certification (the test of the U.S. labor market to show that there are no qualified U.S. workers available to do the advertised job at the prevailing wage for the position, level, and geographic location, as determined by the Department of Labor). What’s in the priority worker category, btw? I know the others. There was at one time (don’t know if it is still in force) a program to get certification for those considered as experts. I wrote a letter in support of someone for this program once. I suspect many or most of those ranting about immigration would never make it through the screen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/50 "2015-08-21T01:48:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Uh oh, here come the Salvadorans! You rang? 😛 [After looking more carefully at the post] Hey! don’t abuse the [del]Batsignal[/del] Salvasignal! 😛 A curious bit of history: Mexico did threaten El Salvador once and El Salvador petitioned the United States to become a US state rather than being invaded and absorbed by Mexico. > **[History of El Salvador](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_El_Salvador)** > > The history of El Salvador begins with several distinct groups of Mesoamerican people, especially the Pipil, the Lenca and the Maya. In the early 16th century, the Spanish Empire conquered the territory, incorporating it into the Viceroyalty of New Spain ruled from Mexico City. In 1821, El Salvador achieved independence from Spain as part of the First Mexican Empire, only to further secede as part of the Federal Republic of Central America two years later. Upon the republic's independence in ... > [@](#): > > El Salvador, fearing incorporation into Mexico, petitioned the United States government for statehood. But in 1823, a revolution in Mexico ousted Emperor Agustín de Iturbide, and a new Mexican congress voted to allow the Central American Intendencies to decide their own fate. So the issue was not pressed and not taken seriously after that, but one wonders now after El Salvador decided to use the Dollar as currency. (I do have the pet Theory that the US treasury has a very convenient place to put all those dollar coins that are used a lot over there, much more than I see then used in the USA) I can say though that we Salvadorans\* immigrants and Mexicans immigrants are uniting against abusive people like Trump. We did agree on disliking Guatemalans for a long time… I 😉 I 😉 \*Salvadoran-American in my case to be precise. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075/51 "2015-08-21T02:21:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What’s in the priority worker category, btw? I know the others. There was at one time (don’t know if it is still in force) a program to get certification for those considered as experts. I wrote a letter in support of someone for this program once. > I suspect many or most of those ranting about immigration would never make it through the screen. You are probably thinking of the [EB-1 multinational executive/manager](http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-first-preference-eb-1) category. Or maybe the other EB-1 subcategories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-amnesty-or-boot/728075.md?page=2)