# Illegal immigration to the United States **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747 "2015-06-29T00:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/41 "2015-07-02T13:38:22Z")
No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/42 "2015-07-02T14:01:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No it isn’t. Which facts in the article do you dispute? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/43 "2015-07-02T14:08:08Z")
I stopped reading after the author assumed that the people with Hispanic last names on the LAPD most wanted list must be Mexican, because I was afraid the stupidity might be infectious. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/44 "2015-07-02T14:16:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I stopped reading after the author assumed that the people with Hispanic last names on the LAPD most wanted list must be Mexican, because I was afraid the stupidity might be infectious. I don’t see where she made that assumption. When providing the list she is talking about illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/45 "2015-07-02T14:26:23Z")
No, she just listed the names on the LAPD most wanted list and invited the reader to assume that all of them must be Mexicans. Read again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/46 "2015-07-02T15:12:22Z")
The article seemed to be not really factual, but more trying to justify Trump’s assertion that Mexicans are rapists by pointing out that there are in fact rapists who happen to be of Mexican descent. A very silly article – the vast majority of folks of Mexican descent (in Mexico or in the US) are not rapists, so it was obviously wrong (both factually and morally) for Trump to say that Mexicans are rapists, and it’s equally wrong for Coulter to try and defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/47 "2015-07-02T15:19:33Z")
Well, it’s _slightly_ less silly than most of the things Coulter says herself. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/48 "2015-07-02T15:31:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, she just listed the names on the LAPD most wanted list and invited the reader to assume that all of them must be Mexicans. Read again. I see how you might have got that, as she moves between “Mexicans”, “illegal immigrants” and “hispanics”. But the larger point stands. Do you dispute any of her facts? Are you not troubles by at least some of them? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/49 "2015-07-02T15:40:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The article seemed to be not really factual, but more trying to justify Trump’s assertion that Mexicans are rapists by pointing out that there are in fact rapists who happen to be of Mexican descent. She uses facts to defend the thrust of Trump’s statement. About the statement itself, it was merely in artful. He was fine until he must of realized. “Oh, let me clarify lest I give the idiot left the opportunity to cast my comments as meaning that all Mexicans are bad”, and he then added that last bit, which exacerbated the problem. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A very silly article – the vast majority of folks of Mexican descent (in Mexico or in the US) are not rapists, so it was obviously wrong (both factually and morally) for Trump to say that Mexicans are rapists, and it’s equally wrong for Coulter to try and defend it. Do you actually think Trump was saying that all Mexican are rapists? But as far as the facts supplied by Coulter, do you dispute them? Are you troubled by them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/50 "2015-07-02T16:04:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > She uses facts to defend the thrust of Trump’s statement. About the statement itself, it was merely in artful. He was fine until he must of realized. “Oh, let me clarify lest I give the idiot left the opportunity to cast my comments as meaning that all Mexicans are bad”, and he then added that last bit, which exacerbated the problem. > > Do you actually think Trump was saying that all Mexican are rapists? I think he was saying that, in general, Mexicans (or Mexican immigrants) are rapists, aside from the “good people” he tacked on at the end. That was a very foolish (and very wrong) thing to say – the vast majority of Mexicans and Mexican immigrants are not rapists, and it’s as offensive to say that as it would be to say “Jewish immigrants are thieves”, or something. > [@](#): > > But as far as the facts supplied by Coulter, do you dispute them? Are you troubled by them? What facts? What is supposed to be new or surprising? I’m troubled that rape and rapists exists. I’m aware that some Mexicans and some immigrants might indeed have committed rape, and I’m even aware that there may be an epidemic of rape in Latin America (and many other places). But none of this refutes any liberal stance on immigration or any other issue, and none of it actually defends Trump’s idiotic assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/51 "2015-07-02T16:34:19Z")
I keep thinking that we’ve grown past the point where the public political conversation would include things like suggesting “Mexican = rapist” or “Illegal immigrant = violent criminal”. I keep being wrong. -VM ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/52 "2015-07-02T17:44:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I talk about it all the time, in part to combat the racism inherent in the illegal immigrant = Latino idea. . Since about 80% of Illegal Immigrants are indeed, Latino, it’s at most a stereotype or a generalization, not racism. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/53 "2015-07-02T18:15:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think he was saying that, in general, Mexicans (or Mexican immigrants) are rapists, aside from the “good people” he tacked on at the end. That was a very foolish (and very wrong) thing to say – the vast majority of Mexicans and Mexican immigrants are not rapists, and it’s as offensive to say that as it would be to say “Jewish immigrants are thieves”, or something. Do you think that Trump believes that “in general, Mexicans (or Mexican immigrants) are rapists”? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/54 "2015-07-02T18:32:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Since about 80% of Illegal Immigrants are indeed, Latino, it’s at most a stereotype or a generalization, not racism. You’re right that it’s a generalization rooted in demographic facts. I suppose the bit I find racist is presumption that white people won’t be found among the illegal immigrant population. Per that ridiculous article posted by **magellan01** , for example, there’s an implication that people with Hispanic surnames in prison are illegal immigrants. This ignores both the people with Hispanic surnames who aren’t illegal immigrants, even though there are tens of millions of them, and the possibility that someone called Smith or O’Rourke or Ivanov is an illegal immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/55 "2015-07-02T18:41:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The article seemed to be not really factual, but more trying to justify Trump’s assertion that Mexicans are rapists by pointing out that there are in fact rapists who happen to be of Mexican descent. If you want a factual article: [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html) Immigrants here from Mexico — which has sent more immigrants than any other country for decades — have the lowest levels of education. Nearly 60 percent of them haven’t graduated from high school. Only about 10 percent have some college and nearly 6 percent have a bachelor’s degree or higher. By way of comparison, the situation of immigrants from Korea, for instance, is almost exactly reversed. More than 50 percent of them have a bachelor’s degree or higher, and less than 4 percent failed to earn a high school diploma. This puts Mexican immigrants at an inherent disadvantage, and it shows. Nearly 35 percent of immigrants from Mexico and their U.S.-born children are in poverty; nearly 68 percent are in or near poverty. **This is the highest level for immigrants from any country** (the Philippines is the lowest, with 5.5 percent in poverty). … Immigrants make progress on almost every indicator over time, but are still far behind natives after two decades. (The exception to the general progress is welfare use, which actually increases among immigrants here for 20 years compared with immigrants here fewer than five years.) Is that factual? > [@](#): > > A very silly article – the vast majority of folks of Mexican descent (in Mexico or in the US) are not rapists, so it was obviously wrong (both factually and morally) for Trump to say that Mexicans are rapists, and it’s equally wrong for Coulter to try and defend it. You know, don’t you, that Trump didn’t say “Mexicans are rapists” or anything close to that. Why are you promoting this falsehood then? “When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. […] They are sending people that have lots of problems. They are bringing those problems to us. They are bringing drugs and they are bringing crime and their rapists, and some are good people, and I speak to border guards and they tell us what we are getting.” Does that somehow translate to “Mexicans are rapists” in your head? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/56 "2015-07-02T18:50:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You know, don’t you, that Trump didn’t say “Mexicans are rapists” or anything close to that. Why are you promoting this falsehood then? > > “When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. […] They are sending people that have lots of problems. They are bringing those problems to us. They are bringing drugs and they are bringing crime and their rapists, and some are good people, and I speak to border guards and they tell us what we are getting.” > > Does that somehow translate to “Mexicans are rapists” in your head? It translates to “Mexican-Americans are not the best Mexicans: they are people in the drug trade, criminals, and rapists—oh yeah, and some good people.” It is clear from that that of the Mexicans in the US, the number of good people is smaller than the number of criminals. It is clear that rapists figure prominently among that group. This is an offensive statement, but if you look into the history of American xenophobia and racism, you’ll find that one of the ways in which the Other is slandered is by referring to their uncontrolled sexuality, and the threat to “our” white women. Trump’s statement is just idiotic on its own, but in historical context is truly offensive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/57 "2015-07-02T18:55:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Do you think that Trump believes that “in general, Mexicans (or Mexican immigrants) are rapists”? It’s Mexican immigrants by the way, from his quote, (sorry if I confused anyone) and I don’t know. I think it’s incredibly stupid to say so, and considering the many, many stupid things Trump has said, it’s possible he believes it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/58 "2015-07-02T18:58:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you want a factual article: > > \ > > Is that factual? Sure – don’t know what it disputes that I said, though. > [@](#): > > You know, don’t you, that Trump didn’t say “Mexicans are rapists” or anything close to that. Why are you promoting this falsehood then? My mistake – he said “they’re rapists”, referring to Mexican immigrants. So he said that Mexican immigrants are rapists. > [@](#): > > “When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. […] They are sending people that have lots of problems. They are bringing those problems to us. They are bringing drugs and they are bringing crime and their rapists, and some are good people, and I speak to border guards and they tell us what we are getting.” > > Does that somehow translate to “Mexicans are rapists” in your head? That’s an improper parsing of the quote. [He said](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-6-most-provocative-parts-donald-trumps-2016-announcement) “They’re rapists”, not “their rapists”. So yes, he said that Mexican immigrants are rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/59 "2015-07-02T19:01:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s an improper parsing of the quote. [He said](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-6-most-provocative-parts-donald-trumps-2016-announcement) “They’re rapists”, not “their rapists”. So yes, he said that Mexican immigrants are rapists. “They are bringing their rapists” is certainly a possible reading of the phrase, as is “they’re rapists.” I think the former is more likely than the latter in context, but neither is good. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747/60 "2015-07-02T19:04:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It translates to “Mexican-Americans are not the best Mexicans: they are people in the drug trade, criminals, and rapists—oh yeah, and some good people.” It is clear from that that of the Mexicans in the US, the number of good people is smaller than the number of criminals. It is clear that rapists figure prominently among that group. It translates to: “the Mexicans that come illegally over the border are not, objectively, as a group, the best that Mexico has to offer.”. Or even the average that Mexico has to offer. Do you disagree with that? I don’t see how you can, objectively. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/illegal-immigration-to-the-united-states/723747.md?page=4)